[smoyer]

I live about 5 miles (on the same road) as the local Harley Davidson dealership and would love it if HD riders left the stock pipes on their bikes. While the engines do vibrate, don't dismiss the additional concussive force of an unmuffled exhaust.

[amelius]

Isn't there a legal limit on the amount of dB(A) produced by any vehicle?

[kzrdude]

(Sweden situation). There's recurring inspections of any vehicle, binannually or something maybe for motorcycles. The HD people I know/knew, would change back to the stock pipes for inspection, because the loud ones were not legal to use. Then just change back again.

[moonchrome]

Or they just add/remove the DB killer (removing a small plug vs dismantling the exhaust)

[foepys]

With Euro4 and later exhausts this is no longer possible. Db killers need to be not removable, so you need to replace the whole slip-on.

[moonchrome]

Had a friend who put an Akrapovic on his MT-07 - DB killer is welded but once you drill through a small part on the weld you can remove it/put it back easily and the drill hole is covered by carbon shield so unless they disassemble the shield to check (and my friend had it like this for 5 years before selling IIRC) it was just pull out - put it back in for technical

[nitrogen]

Just curious, do these changes affect power output in either direction?

[arglebarglegar]

yes this is exactly what people do with modified cars too

[voisin]

I would love to see statistics on how many tickets are issued per year for these violations. I suspect zero.

[cagey]

USA long-time motorcycle owner here: agree. I believe there have been laws on the books for many years regarding noise limits, but they are (effectively) NEVER enforced. No-muffler-at-all ("straight-pipe") exhausts on V-twin (EX: Harley Davidson and its countless clones) are de facto standard (and for reasons unclear to me are accepted).

Also, aftermarket exhaust systems for motorcycles (99.9% of these being much louder than stock/OEM) are a huge business: I'd guesstimate that 50% of motorcycles sold in the USA soon (< 1 year old) end up running aftermarket exhaust systems; it's a standard first modification done by almost all enthusiast owners.

[NathanielK]

> it's a standard first modification done by almost all enthusiast owners.

Since laws are unenforced, it's also possible for dealers to upsell louder exhausts without even needing to visit a 3rd party shop.

[mhb]

About the same as for leaf blowers.

[hemloc_io]

Anecdotally I've heard that they are mostly used as a way to stop riced out Japanese cars.

Not ppl on motorcycles. As someone who has run straight pipes across two major cities never had an issue. A bunch of motorcyclists don't even have licenses lol.

[robgibbons]

Several beach towns in my area have enacted local ordinances and have handed out citations for excessive exhaust noise.

[kevin_thibedeau]

Such laws are almost never enforced in the US.

[kube-system]

The EPA prohibits modifying exhausts on motorcycles to exceed some decibel limit (80 something IIRC?), and this is stamped into the muffler on my motorcycle.

[sp332]

Yes, and many aftermarket sets say "not for road use". Harley Davidson was fined for installing them on too many daily drivers. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-harley-davidson-lawsu...

[ThePadawan]

(Switzerland here)

Yes, but they're surprisingly recent, so most vehicles are grandfathered into "may still make a shitload of noise" levels.

[garyfirestorm]

Yes. Look up passby noise.

[jrootabega]

I'm not commenting either way on the value of loud motorcycles here, but is this related to the article? It says the danger comes from mounting the phone directly to the bike. As far as I can tell, it doesn't say that the acoustic vibrations damage the phone. Would the muffled exhaust also reduce the physical vibrations of the frame?

[jacquesm]

Judging by the vibrations of my walls: yes. The sooner a maximum noise emitted law for vehicles goes into practice the better. I have a neihgbor here who goes out for small trips 20+ times per day on his HD. Open the garage door, take the bike out (running, of course), close the garage door, rev it a couple of times, wait for a few minutes for the engine to warm up, roar away at maximum volume. Return 10 minutes later, leave bike on the stand while opening the garage door. Turn off bike. Close garage door. Wait 1/2 hour or so, rinse, repeat. No idea what he's up to but it's not a normal usage pattern as far as I can see and I'd be a-ok with that if he would not make so much noise. Even with headphones on you can clearly hear it and the vibration is enough to rattle the cup on my desk. With noise cancelling on on the headphone I don't hear him.

[bradknowles]

Sounds like someone needs to build an MRAD. You can put out as much noise as he does, and make sure it is very carefully aimed at the only suitable target.

[Camillo]

How are you going to deal with the situation?

[jacquesm]

Not, as far as I know it's all legal, just super annoying. I also don't see the point of going through the whole ritual so many times per day. I really started to notice because of the work-from-home situation after the COVID pandemic took off, if not for that it would have never come to my attention.

[jrootabega]

Noise cancelling headphones can negate it but it could damage a phone? This seems more like the place for people to gather and say "I don't like motorcycles because loud." Which is fine, but let's not really say it's related to the post.

[jacquesm]

You have a reading comprehension problem. The one situation is where a phone is in very close proximity or even mounted on the bike, the other where there is multiple 10's of meters between my seat the motorcycle, as well as me being inside a house.

[jrootabega]

It's more that it is hard to pick out your main article-related point from the bulk of the comment, which is just a complaint against a neighbor. I'm not against your frustration or in favor of your neighbor.

So it sounds like you're saying that if your neighbor's bike can shake your walls at that distance, then the same sound could/would damage the phone at a smaller distance? I'm not confident either way on that, other than believing that resonance probably plays a large part when it comes to the acoustic vibrations. Apple also did not say that the phones would be damaged just by being near the bike, so they may not be affected by it (or Apple is omitting that part, which wouldn't surprise me)

[spoonjim]

He’s a delivery drug dealer. Very common for heroin and a major enabler of the heroin overdose epidemic. Allows people who are too zonked to do anything to still get their fix. Pioneered by Mexicans but now adopted by all kinds of criminal gangs.

[dTal]

You seem very confident.

[barneygale]

Shotters don't generally use loud/obvious vehicles

[jacquesm]

That never even crossed my mind.

[bserge]

I hear them outside and am happy for them, they don't have tinnitus. Yet.

I used to like the sound of engines, still do, but I never understood the farty exhaust tbh.

[hughrr]

Yeah it’s just being a nuisance for the sake of it.

There was one who lived over the road from me a few years back who would rev his broken exhaust bike at 5am and wake everyone up. About three weeks later his motorcycle mysteriously caught fire in the early evening. There were people smirking out of their windows enjoying the schadenfreude. There’s still a puddle of aluminium melted into the ground where it died.

[ryandrake]

> Yeah it’s just being a nuisance for the sake of it.

It's a lot like rolling coal[1]. No actual safety purpose, people do it simply to project insecurity and irritate others. Sometimes I think society is too tolerant of purely antisocial behavior, but I guess in the US everyone has the freedom to be a donkey.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

[hughrr]

Oh joy that’s terrible. Had no idea anyone did that.

[amelius]

Sadly this won't help in the majority of cases. Their insurance will just pay for a brand new bike with the newest and noisiest tech installed.

[amelius]

Hint: they wear protective earplugs.

[bserge]

The bastards!

[RhysU]

The protective earplugs are to combat wind roar and hearing loss over a lifetime. The non-Harley folk wear them too.

[whartung]

Correct. My bike has a stock exhaust and sounds like a sewing machine, but I wear earplugs mostly to protect against the constant wind noise at speed.

[QuarterReptile]

Is that not accomplished by wearing a helmet? I haven't been on a motorcycle in over a decade, but I recall it being pretty quiet in the helmet.

[kube-system]

Loud pipes are annoying, but they won’t change the amount of vibration transmitted through the handlebars to a phone mount.

[jacquesm]

Yes, but the proximity is such that the soundwaves themselves could conceivably vibrate the case enough to do damage if it is in a partially enclosed space and facing out (because that way it gets pressure from only one side, essentially a reverse bass speaker).

[shsbdncudx]

Nah dude, you’re really reaching. So now loud noises break the iPhones camera?

[jrootabega]

It's not a bad hypothesis, but would Apple have withheld that info if they were already advising people of the danger of direct mounting? They could just advise people to keep their phones inside a padded box or something of the sort.

[kingkawn]

For the bikes being loud enough that everyone knows you’re coming is life and death issue on the road surrounded by huge cars and trucks

[int0x2e]

Sorry, but as a person with over 15 years of motorcycle driving experience - "loud pipes save lives" is mostly a myth. They may help sometimes, but they can also be dangerous since in some settings they can scare the heck out of the car driver which can lead to them making unpredictable choices.

Ultimately, the best thing a rider can do is take total ownership over our safety - full protective gear, constantly taking advanced riding training courses, and above all - always riding at a reasonable speed for the road, visibility and traffic conditions.

[smoyer]

You just reminded me of an incident that happened to me on I83 near the PA border - a motorcyclist passed between me and the vehicle in the left lane (yes ... a two-lane road passing on the dashed line) going about 120 MPH. It wasn't the cycle passing at high speed very close to the car that scared me ... it was that I never saw him/her in my mirrors and the noise between two cars that were 4 feet apart was horrendous. I actually made me flinch at the wheel and I probably swerved a foot in my lane.

I've known many conscientious motorcycle drivers but it's people like this that lead to emergency room doctors referencing "donorcycles".

[dharmab]

This is especially true in modern cars with great sound deadening and NVH. As my group of riders has observed when we ferry bikes into winter storage, the only bikes we can hear at all in our cars are practically straight piped.

[dahart]

That theory has been tested, and shown that bikes are not loud enough for anyone to hear you coming. https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a35952569/loud-p...

The accident stats also fail to backup this idea, and even suggest that loud pipes might be giving some riders a false sense of safety and leading to more accidents than otherwise. https://canadamotoguide.com/2016/07/29/the-truth-about-loud-...

[gbrown]

That’s the sales pitch, but I haven’t seen any evidence. Almost all the sound is projected behind you, where people can already see you (and where high-vis clothing would be more effective than sound anyway, but you don’t see many bikers wearing that).

Anecdotally, the people I’ve known with loud exhaust systems are not what you’d call “safety conscious”.

[Invictus0]

Even if it's ineffective, it's still a psychological safety blanket. It's much the same reason that bikers ride in groups.

[SquishyPanda23]

I'll keep that in mind next time a loud bike wakes up my children in the middle of the night.

"It's okay honey, that man needed a psychological safety blanket.'

[tartoran]

This!! Mufflers and subwoofers wake up my child in the middle of the night and only we know how long it takes to fall asleep again. Its frustrating because both of these sources are completely unnecessary

[JasonFruit]

My kids would find that hilarious, and I'd have to resign myself to hearing it after every motorcycle that passes for weeks.

[8note]

Isn't that to say that's its worse than ineffective? That suggests it causes bikers to do more dangerous things because they think the loudness is protecting them

[8note]

Mm, but I'm in my house, not on the road. There's no danger from me crashing into this motorcyclist.

My bicycle isn't very loud though; should I be attaching a subwoofer t9 it because I'm around the same cars and trucks? So far, bicycling has been plenty safe without the loudness

[oskapt]

This doesn’t deserve to be downvoted. The statement is correct. I have a permanently destroyed right foot and ankle because someone made a left turn from the right lane just outside the Holland Tunnel in NJ back in 2004. The driver “didn’t see me” before making the illegal turn and planting his Mercedes horizontally across my lane as he slowed to enter the gas station driveway. I laid my quiet 800cc bike down and plowed into his car at 40mph, crushing my right leg between the bike and his driver side door. I now have 4 toes, limited mobility, and near constant pain with every step I take. After that I put straight pipes on my bike and had countless other situations where a car would start to change lanes into me and then move back when I gunned the engine to let them know I was there. Loud pipes save lives. Car drivers are often oblivious of their surroundings or distracted by their phones or music. When they check their blind spot the brain is looking for car or truck shapes and ignores motorcycle shapes as it quickly assesses the clearance of the lane. I’ve had people look right at me and then change lanes into me. I’ve kicked cars and cabs from my motorcycle as they are pushing me off the road. 100% of accidents where a car hit a bike use the excuse of not seeing the motorcyclist. I’ll make sure they can hear me too.

[gokhan]

Sorry for your accident. Just wanted to share my contrary experience.

A motorcycle with loud pipes filtering right passed me fast in a two lane road while I was on the left lane, I was in my car. I am a former enduro rider myself and don't react when I hear a loud one, but the driver in front panicked as he was most probably didn't see him coming from his mirror, did a hard left, came dangerously close to barriers and did a hard right to correct, hit the motorcycle pushing him to the right lane. Motorcycle barely fit the space there and luckily didn't crash, but it was all happened on a very straight road with no one was turning or doing any movement, just straight driving.

After 15 years, I have enough confidence that being muffled or not does not make any difference to safety, people hearing the thunder but not seeing the source is equally lethal to a rider. I'd rather have proper training, constant wearing full body armored motorcycle clothes and a much lighter/cooler riding attitude (not saying you didn't have / do any of this).

[willis936]

>back in 2004

>distracted by their phones

Have the roads gotten more dangerous in the past 15 years?

Also the issue people have with loud exhaust is not that it draws attention on the highway; it's that people use it as a tool to be obnoxious. When I lived in a small town I would regularly get woken up at 2am by some shmuck opening up on main street. The entire town would be woken up. I had the urge to chase them down. It's not good for anyone.

[jacquesm]

And that's the real reason. These toddler narcissists are out to make it known to the world that here rides a badass, not that there is someone who drives responsibly and whose life depends on the volume of their exhaust. It's pathetic.

[claytoneast]

It's not possible that they might just enjoy loud machines? And you might not enjoy loud machines?

[nitrogen]

I have neighbors, friends, and family who ride motorcycles either for the speed or for the sound. They're mostly reasonable about it. But the thing about loud machines is that they are loud for everyone, who didn't get to choose whether to listen to that engine at 2AM.

The comparison to toddlers is apt because we expect adults to be aware of the effects their actions have on others, and take steps to mitigate them in social reciprocity.

[ubercow13]

Why would that be relevant or important? Frankly, it's not a justification for antisocial behaviour to 'like' it.

[8note]

They could instead put on lound machine noises in their headphones.

[dijit]

I'm sorry to hear that, but it's unlikely to improbable that "bike wasn't loud enough" was the cause there.

Throwing away the idea that people in cars don't impede their own hearing with radio stations and music; sound produced by engines is not fantastically directional to hear and mostly trails behind bikes (due to that being the location of the exhaust).

[ubercow13]

It sounds equivalent to driving your car around with the horn constantly pressed for safety. Why not get a horn or something for your bike? Or wouldn’t that sound as cool?

[nitrogen]

I've heard that there are indeed places in the world where people will refuse to drive if the horn is not working, for this reason.

[alex_c]

Funny enough, that basically describes traffic in Vietnam.

[tartoran]

As someone mentioned above, most of the motorcycle muffler sound is projected backwards.

The louder is safety is just a myth to not comply. Most of it is ego and show off in my oppinion.

[mhb]

If he was making a left turn from the right lane, maybe he would have collided with a car if one had been there also.

[kingkawn]

Folks here already decided they were too right for your experience. I hear you though.