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by dataflow 1737 days ago
> Just like C# is one of the native ways to make Windows applications.

Please do everyone a favor and, at least for the sake of desktop development, don't misuse the terminology like that if you want people to understand what you're saying. The entire reason ".NET Native" was developed was that C# did not produce "native" applications. Saying C# produces native Windows applications is going to confuse the heck out of everybody.
1 comments
pjmlp 1737 days ago
Someone is wrong on the Internet.

.NET has always supported AOT via NGEN, although it only supports dynamic linking and was optimized for fast startup of applications.

Windows 8 introduced the Bartok compiler used by Singularity, where applications would be pre-AOT compiled in the Windows store minus linking, with on-device linking happening on installation.

Windows 10, improved the later scenario with the introduction of .NET Native, slightly based on the Midori experience.

The new Windows 11 store is still fully based on .NET Native, as it makes use of WinUI 2.6.

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dataflow 1737 days ago
> .NET has always supported AOT via NGEN

I didn't claim otherwise. But AOT != "native".

What makes something "native" is not merely the fact that you compile to machine code. It's one of the main features of native code but far from the only one. Again: there's a reason they came up with ".NET Native" and called it that despite the fact that NGen always did AOT. And there's a reason the Android NDK has an N, unlike its SDK. It actually means something beyond AOT.

You can go against the grain if you want and call them all native apps, telling people they're Wrong On The Internet, but you're just confusing people.

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pjmlp 1737 days ago
What makes an NGEN compiled WinForms .NET application not native on Windows?

Curious to find out, how those people distinguish it from an MFC/ATL or an Win32 one.

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dataflow 1737 days ago
It's not just one thing. Just like what distinguishes a human from a chimpanzee isn't just 1 thing.

But see for example https://stackoverflow.com/a/855774

If you still don't like the terminology though, I'm not going to keep arguing. I didn't coin the term. You should go ask Microsoft why they didn't call C# native when NGen was already there. I'm just saying that terminology is already established and you're confusing people by using it differently.

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pjmlp 1737 days ago
That is one possible interpretation of the term, yes Microsoft does use native/managed to distinguish between environments with GC runtime and those without.

Which isn't what users talk about when arguing about native apps, they don't even know what a GC is.

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dataflow 1737 days ago
> Which isn't what users talk about when arguing about native apps, they don't even know what a GC is.

Because I'm sure if you went and asked the vast majority of "users" what a "native app" is, you'd get a coherent answer instead of a blank stare.

Let's lay this matter to rest. You don't like the definition, I get it. It's fine.

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