[nl]

I think you are radically underestimating the soft power China has in Asia. Countries like Vietnam and the Philippines are far from Chinese allies, but have little faith in US commitment to the region and have to survive in the region.

There's probably a number of people in leadership positions in the region who accept the realpolitik that is isn't worth fighting China over Taiwan.

> Americans do not rollover when there is blood involved.

Plenty of recent evidence says otherwise.

[jollybean]

Your point about Vietnam and Philippines wavering on direct conflict is well taken but I did hint at that.

I didn't say 'they would be going to war over Taiwan' - I would agree with you there there.

In the geopolitical realignment, they'd be in a difficult situation, and though they might not join the Asian NATO, they'd join the new Trade Pact.

Neither Sweden nor Finland nor Austria belong to NATO either, but there's a fair degree of coordination still.

But Japan, S. Korea, India would, and that's the start of a fairly powerful coalition - some of which would probably engage the Chinese Navy in S. China sea, and maybe be involved in blockades.

"Americans do not rollover when there is blood involved Plenty of recent evidence says otherwise. :

I don't know what you mean. 9/11 resulted in two major wars and that was a non-state actor.

China sinking a couple of US ships is definitely an act of war, the only question would be 'how' the US would respond. It would be in blood, not just 'sanctions'.

[nl]

> I don't know what you mean. 9/11 resulted in two major wars and that was a non-state actor.

As I said elsewhere: In the last few years the US has been run out of Iraq by Iran, Syria by Russia and Afghanistan by the Taliban. I don't see much appetite for going back to any of those.

Or more starkly: The US lost both those wars and the US population is sick of it.

If China sank a couple of US ships, I'm sure the US would declare war. But China would be 100% committed to winning an invasion of Taiwan, no matter what the cost.

The US.. not so much.

> Japan, S. Korea, India would, and that's the start of a fairly powerful coalition - some of which would probably engage the Chinese Navy in S. China sea, and maybe be involved in blockades.

Note that none of these countries have every said they would defend Taiwan in the event of an invasion. That's statement is conspicuously absent from anyone at all, actually.

As for a blockade, I think you are - again - overestimating support Taiwan has, and underestimating the realpolitik that would happen.

Where are the blockades over Chinese behaviour in Hong Kong? Or diplomatic protests? Or...anything at all other than newspaper articles?

[jollybean]

The US was not run out of Iraq by Iran, not was it run out of Syria by Russia. That's a total misrepresentation of the situation.

The US lost the political will to stay in Afghanistan. It wasn't actually that difficult or costly, just not worth it.

There was no appetite for war after Vietnam, and yet Iraq 1, Iraq 2 and Afghanistan all happened.

If China invaded Taiwan, then the 'appetite for war would change' and if a couple of American ships were sunk, then the 'appetite for war' would be at 100%.

Sometimes I think I'm debating young people with no living memory of how these things change over time and how Americans absolutely do not tolerate direct attacks.

Pearl Harbour, 9/11, both had devastating consequences.

[nl]

I'm 46.

America was run out off Syria by Russia. There was lots of other things going on too, but Russia got a deep water port in the Mediterranean - something that both the British and American empires tried to stop for hundreds of years - before the Crimean war.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/10/08/after-five-years-of-fig...

https://www.news18.com/news/opinion/after-10-years-of-syrian...

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-applauds-russia-vic...

I mean Turkish forces shelled a US post in Syria at one point and laughed about it. That's how worried the rest of the world is about US appetite for war.

https://www.militarytimes.com/2019/10/13/us-troops-believe-t...

Iran has run America out of Iraq.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/18/leaked-cables-...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/18/leaked-cables-...

Where was any appetite to do anything about China's actions in HK?

[kenneth]

> As I said elsewhere: In the last few years the US has been run out of Iraq by Iran, Syria by Russia and Afghanistan by the Taliban. I don't see much appetite for going back to any of those.

As was said elsewhere here, the Afghanistan war was won quickly. Afghanistan was also easily kept. And that's fighting against an opponent using guerilla tactics. What failed was nation-building. But that's not the goal with a confrontation with China. The goal is symmetric warfare to hold back an invasion. Defensive warfare is easier than offensive, so the cost would be far higher on China invading than Taiwan/US defending.

[nl]

At what point was the Taliban defeated?

There was perhaps a short period before the Iraq war where they were close to defeat but from memory there was never a point they stopped fighting.