[aerosmile]

It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. It was a total shock to me to arrive in the States and hear my cab driver unload on the US President at the time. He really wasn't choosing his words very carefully, to the point that I had to wonder if this was some kind of a test by the INS. I still chuckle today about how my views have changed since then, and how much more comfortable I am today with criticizing people, especially those in power.

[barbazoo]

> It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself.

Is that a fact? That's news to me. You might not hear as much "unloading" in Germany simply because it's not yet as polarized as it is in the US but certainly there wouldn't be any repercussions as far as I'm aware. What exactly are you talking about?

[dzhiurgis]

I think defamation, slander or libel laws are basically non-existent in US.

[jcrites]

They exist but primarily protect private people. If the court determines that you are a “public figure” (I forget the legal term; IANAL) — such as CEOs of publicly traded companies, or politicians, etc. — then the bar for winning a case for defamation goes up significantly.

Furthermore speech that is essentially opinion or critique is a defense against defamation that can cause the case to be dismissed before trial. 1st Amendment protections from the US Constitution.

If you’re careful to word what you’re saying as a statement of your opinion rather than an assertion of fact, then a defendant has little chance at winning a defamation lawsuit from what I understand.

Lastly, if what you’re saying is factually true then that offers an absolute defense against a defamation lawsuit; you would need to be able to prove that however.

There are some country-wide precedents that SCOTUS has ruled on; otherwise laws are set by individual states from what I understand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law

[disgu]

People get sentenced for insulting police all the time. What are you talking about?

[jcrites]

Can you give an example? I’ve never heard of such a case. You might be thinking of scenarios where people are arrested and prosecuted for resisting arrest, making threats against police officer, or crimes of that nature.

There will be limits of what you can say to police before you also run afoul of laws against public nuisance. Just as you would not want a random person to shout epithets and slurs at you and follow you down the sidewalk talking trash at you, which may be a misdemeanor crime in some jurisdictions (like disturbing the peace), the same is likely true for police if you were to interact with them in that way.

I cannot imagine anyone being prosecuted for publishing criticism about the performance/behavior of individual officers during a police encounter after the fact, or publishing criticism of the police department in their city generally.

While interacting with police, if you are being detained, beyond providing any information you are required to provide by law, which differs by state and circumstance (such as if driving a motor vehicle) - know your rights and obligations - it is wise to say “I invoke my fifth amendment right to remain silent” in response to any questions; as a suspect there are only downsides to having a conversation with police as anything you say can be used against you in court. During an interaction with police is not a wise time for criticism of police in general, the department in particular, or the specific officers at the scene.

[disgu]

https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInformationen/StatistikenLageb...

Key word to look for is 'Beleidigung'.

The bigger cases are usually to be found here: https://www.rechtsindex.de/urteile/beleidigung

Keep in mind that the list above is not 100% relevant for these examples. You can also just find articles if you google 'beleidigung' and 'verurteilt'.

Ask any Strafrechtsanwalt in your area and they'll confirm this. This is not even a controversial thing at all.

[rPlayer6554]

Source please?

[disgu]

Official German 'Polizeiliche Krimnalstatistik'. Go here, download the Excel file and look for 'Beleidigung'. It then shows the exact numbers. https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInformationen/StatistikenLageb...

[kevin_thibedeau]

Until recently you couldn't insult any head of state in Germany and still can't insult the German leader.

[MagnumOpus]

You still are not allowed to insult not just the German Leader (which Germany hasn't had in 84 years), but anyone at all.

Insults are a misdemeanor crime and you can and will be fined several thousand dollars for calling your local cop an asshole or whoreson, for instance. (Which is better than the US where you will likely get molested, possibly arrested, and might get shot for the unwritten crime of 'contempt of cop'.)

[majewsky]

Until someone did and everyone immediately realized how stupid this law is, and then the law was repealed.

[slightwinder]

> Is that a fact? That's news to me.

Yes, it is. Insults and defamation are pretty common law-problems in Germany, because of which most people are rather careful in what they say about specific people. Basically, if they have power or money, don't trigger them, because the one paying will likely be you at the end. Though, Online this again a bit different, as many people have not much awareness about legal situation there, and law enforcement was a bit lax. This changed with new laws recently.

[aerosmile]

Elsewhere in this thread you will find multiple references to a 150-year old law in Germany that explicitly protects "people's personal honor."

[HotHotLava]

A while ago a Berlin court decided that online posts saying "Drecksfotze"/"Schlampe"/"Knatter sie doch mal einer so richtig durch, bis sie wieder normal wird." (filthy cunt/bitch/someone fuck her hard until she becomes normal again) are still below the threshold that top politicians have to endure before they can sue for insult, so the ability to "unload" on top politicians doesn't seem to be in any danger in Germany.

Although this ruling was widely criticized, because there is some societal understanding that politicians are also humans who need some level of protection, and that unrestricted hate speech always has the potential to transform into physical violence sooner or later.

[kerng]

I'm not German, but I have noticed quite the opposite just yesterday actually:

Some non-german person posted a picture of Angela Merkel and highlighted how incredible she is and humble and all the good work she did and how she should be an example for their own (the posters) country and other politicians in the world.

The result: Lots of people agreed with the overall sentiment and applauded her achievements... well, besides German LinkedIn users, many went full "Reddit" (on LinkedIn)... Many "not nice words were written" by people using their professional profile - it was surreal to see.

[nyx-aiur]

Sorry but if you hear no one ranting about the german government you are just not going out a lot.

[nautilius]

‘Be careful how to express yourself’ is needlessly conspicuous. Never in my life have I seen anyone hold back to criticize politicians or people in power, most certainly not in some cab.

As I wrote somewhere else, if you think the first amendment gives you the possibility to say what you want to whom you want, without any consequences, go to the nearest policeman, start insulting him and his family. I am sure there will not be a problem, and he’ll sit through it for hours, if you just make clear you’re exercising your first amendment rights.

[y4mi]

When is the last time you were in Germany? Was it perhaps in the 80th around Berlin?

The only reason why it's rarely a topic is because people just don't care enough to start talking about it.