[pcwalton]

> As it is right now, the only reason to take the vaccine is not to feel covid symptoms / reduce the damage to your organs by covid, which is a decent reason.

This is obviously false antivax nonsense. The COVID vaccine, by and large, prevents you from dying or ending up in the ICU.

> It's just that society started calling people who care about individual freedom, conspiracy nuts (on top of nazi and white supremacists).

Or we're just tired of people buying into antivax propaganda and dying and wasting hospital resources?

[fredros]

Should we then force people to eat less with a « eat pass »?

Obesity is even more wasteful of hospital resources.

[pcwalton]

If solving obesity were as effortless as getting two free widely-available shots? Absolutely, we would want to mandate them.

[yetihehe]

Obesity is not that contagious.

[tekknik]

Well then let’s bring out the big guns. HIV/AIDS patients. How do we keep those people from transmitting their disease? Should we force them to isolate and potentially even form their own cities?

[yetihehe]

Again, it's not THAT contagious. Aids doesn't spread through air or simple touch. And those with aids still can use condoms (for sex) or handlers can use gloves (when hiv patient has wounds).

The main problem with covid is the tempo it spreads. Covid symptoms are not that bad, most of victims survive, but because it spreads so fast, that ~5 percent of hard cases can overwhelm a country. THAT is the problem, but almost no one adresses it in comments on forums, instead they give comparisons to other diseases which have completely other problems.

[tekknik]

> Again, it's not THAT contagious.

It's very contagious if you come in contact with certain bodily fluids. ORs, and traditional rooms in hospitals are sterilized with bleach after a stay from an HIV positive patient. There's even plenty of stories of Dr's and surgeons contracting it when they've slipped with a scalpel or needle.

Further are you 100% confident people are not bleeding on shared surfaces and that other people do not come in contact with this? In SF I once saw a woman slip in a homeless person's urine, with her hitting the sidewalk and breaking skin with her arm in the urine. Wanna play guess the disease there?

> The main problem with covid is the tempo it spreads.

Great so self isolate since you're scared. In fact I see most of the problem being with the vaccinated thinking they're totally safe, and not using a mask. They still get the virus, still spread it, and yet they think they're not the problem.

[yetihehe]

> It's very contagious if you come in contact with certain bodily fluids

Yeah, IF you come in contact with certain bodily fluids. We don't do that everyday, but we do it everyday with airborne diseases when breathing. So, it's not THAT contagious. I've heard stories of doctors being infected when trying to help some junkie who started being aggressive.

> Further are you 100% confident people are not bleeding on shared surfaces and that other people do not come in contact with this?

I've seen such occurence maybe once every several years where I live. Typically it's because of some acident and it's cleaned in reasonable time.

> In SF I once saw a woman slip in a homeless person's urine

We don't shit on sidewalks, homeless here are a very rare sight, I don't remember seeing one since at least a month.

> Great so self isolate since you're scared.

I'm not scared, I'm vaccinated and still use mask. I'm currently self-isolating because I've got some mild cough and don't want to spread whatever I have, I've cancelled todays dinner with remote (other country) coworker who I would see live first time since a year, but that could mean spreading some flu to him and others in restaurant.

> In fact I see most of the problem being with the vaccinated thinking they're totally safe, and not using a mask.

I'm 100% with you about this. They should isolate more. Now, what was your argument again?

[JumpCrisscross]

> How do we keep those people from transmitting their disease?

PrEP exists. But it’s costly and tedious. When we have an HIV vaccine that’s free and two shots, yes, it would make sense to restrict those who choose to be infected.

[tekknik]

Using this logic, why did we isolate prior to having a vaccine?

[pcwalton]

To save millions of lives worldwide? It isn't exactly hard math.

[yetihehe]

> Using this logic, why did we isolate prior to having a vaccine?

To prevent hospitals overrun by sick people.

If more people get vaccine, I'm for ending with isolation or other pandemic safety measures. Those who didn't want to vaccinate can die if they want to. The problem AT THIS MOMENT is that there is too many unvaccinated people, so when covid spreads, hospitals will be overflowed and other people will die from other preventable diseases from lack of care.