[michelb]

I keep thinking that the ‘car’ project is just one of apple’s many experiments to find/figure out a product but this one is hard to keep invisible because they need more physical space for it. So nobody really knows what it is but you get these glimpses. It must be extremely frustrating that they can’t contain it as they did with the smaller hardware.

[jillesvangurp]

Apple has been flirting with this topic for quite long and are obviously not succeeding in hitting a formula that makes sense for them, which would be a mass produced premium priced vehicle that people with too much money would prefer over the likes of expensive sports cars, teslas, and what not. It's both obvious and stupendously hard if you've never produced a car before. Tesla is basically the Apple of cars already. They raised the bar quit high for Apple to break into that market and not look like an also ran type product (i.e. like most of Tesla's competition right now).

Rumor has it they were talking to Kia at some point. That does not instill a lot of confidence. Fine cars, but sort of the equivalent of the beige boxes that Apple once competed against when IBM PCs were a thing. Munro did a review on a Kia the other day and the lack of enthusiasm for it was quite obvious. It's not that it was a bad car (he actually liked it, just not for himself) but just a bit boring, bland, and cheap. Alright if that's what you can afford. But kind of not the market Apple is after. Partnering with Kia would be the equivalent of letting Compaq or Dell take care of producing the imac in 1999. It took Steve Jobs to figure out that mess. Better beige boxes weren't the answer and he pretty much axed that first thing into his second round at Apple and rebooted what is now the most valuable company on the planet.

You can see the dilemma here. They basically lack internal skills/knowledge for building a car manufacturing operation and partnering is alien to them. So, how do you create a car with a screen and some fancy Apple experience when you've basically never build a car and your entire vision revolves around what's on that screen? Perhaps they should just outright buy their own car company and get it over with. They are certainly rich enough and there's no lack of suitable companies struggling to survive but yet still competent enough to innovate. I'm surprised they haven't already. Allegedly, they opted out of acquiring Tesla when they had the chance.

[ra7]

> Tesla is basically the Apple of cars already. They raised the bar quit high for Apple to break into that market and not look like an also ran type product (i.e. like most of Tesla's competition right now).

The Apple of cars is Porsche, not Tesla. Porsche’s design language, desirability, quality and customer service is Apple-like in the car industry. Tesla is the opposite of that. High volume $40k cars with horrendous quality control issues, subpar interior quality and customer service.

Tesla, however, does set the bar high when it comes to being an EV and technology integration. Everything else, not so much.

[rusk]

> design language, desirability, quality and customer service … is the opposite of that. High volume $40k cars with horrendous quality control

Maybe 10 years ago. I don’t really feel as though there’s a Porsche in the computing sector these days either.

Apple is Tesla. The rest of the industry is held back by the lack of any decent OS, and Apple has declined because they just don’t have any vigorous competition.

[stncls]

It probably does not affect the cheaper models to the same extent, but Kia's design language has changed quite a bit over the last 5 years.

For example, The Grand Tour's James May was full of praise for the Kia Stinger in 2017 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht1Zh-1q7LU ).

More recently, the Kia Telluride was 2020 "World car of the year". In 2019 it was basically sold out everywhere, and it ended up moving more than double the numbers as the Hyundai Palisade, which is essentially the same car with a different exterior design.

The evolution has been attributed by some to their poaching of European talent, like German car designer Peter Schreyer of Audi TT fame.

[Sophistifunk]

Bollocks. Kias might be made with cheaper materials than Tesla, and they're not as fast, not as "high tech", but you know what? THEY FIT TOGETHER. Tesla isn't the Apple of cars, it's Alienware.

[01100011]

Admittedly I'm a bit of a hater, but when my friend bought a Model 3 this year I was shocked at how bad the paint looked. Orange peel texture. It looked like something I'd produce with a can of spray paint.

[Loic]

I agree with you, we have friends next doors, one bought a model Y and the other an ID.4. The quality of the model Y painting is really bad, it is brand new (delivered 3 weeks ago) but already looks old.

But it is maybe deliberate. I am in Germany, I have no ideas where the model Y is produced but maybe the type of painting we have normally in Germany is different than the type of painting in other parts of the world.

[Sophistifunk]

If it were a deliberate tradeoff they'd all be like that, but apparently 1 in 10 is fine - the panels fit together, the paint was done properly, etc. It seems common practice to order a Tesla, reject 3 cars because they were assembled / painted by drunks, then eventually accept one with what you hope are ignorable faults.

[mulmen]

TBH the interior quality of Tesla has never impressed me. It has always had a more “Kia” (haven’t been in one from the last 10 years) or Chevy vibe than a premium brand.

[ksec]

I will speculate. The initial rumors of Apple wanted to build a car themselves were not true. It is typical of Apple in their path finding to have expertise and knowledge of how it is built, and how to automate the whole thing along with industry experts. Once they figure this out they start partnering. This is vastly different to most other brands where the whole process is outsourced.

Then the next part is simply Apple thinking their core value has to be experience and AV. Since AV is still years if not decades away. They are only thing left will be in car experience. But is experience really enough to sell cars?

Part of the advantage Apple has with AV is that it requires lots of custom silicons. It is literally a giant iPhone with lots more sensors running on battery around the cities. And Apple has the expertise and scale over pretty much all other players.

But I still dont believe AV will be a thing any time soon. It could be done now if we could get rid of human drivers on the road in some cities. But adding human into the equation is just putting an infinitely variable into it.

[snowwrestler]

Apple doesn’t even make computers or phones, they contract out for the manufacturing. Obviously they are never going to manufacture a car.

If they are talking to a company like Kia, it’s not to relabel an existing Kia family sedan. It’s to manufacture a custom Apple design. Whether or not Kia designs nice cars, they know how to manufacture them well (something Tesla is still struggling to figure out).

Who will be the Foxconn of cars? That’s what Apple needs to figure out if they want to bring a car to market.

[rusk]

> Who will be the Foxconn of cars?

Again this is also done to death. There’s no new ground to be broken here.

Car manufacturers have had their own internal markets in parts and manufacturing for years.

If anything Apple was copying the motor industry with phones.

[snowwrestler]

No, car companies have supply chains but Apple wholly outsources manufacturing including final assembly. Big difference.

[rusk]

It’s manifestly similar. The specific arrangements regarding third party and in house are more surface matters.

[qaq]

Look @ https://www.genesis.com/us/en/2022/genesis-gv70.html & Tesla I would hardly call gv70 a beige box compared to Tesla Y

[jillesvangurp]

That's exactly what it looks like to me though. I guess tastes are different. But it to me just looks like a generic Chrysler style vehicle with a lot of chrome and bulk to make it look like a more premium kind of thing than it is. Poor Steve Jobs would turn his grave. I was talking about the Kia Niro, which is one of their EVs. I doubt Apple would waste time on ICE vehicles (which the genesis obviously is).

But you are right that Teslas are kind of bland in their own right.

[qaq]

Thats bs as fit and finish is on par with premium vehicles and far better than Tesla. The design would obviously come from Apple and not Luc Donckerwolke (who has being head of design at Lamborghini and then Bently before moving to Genesis).

[sangnoir]

> Rumor has it they were talking to Kia at some point. That does not instill a lot of confidence.

Apple will talk to, and partner with anyone in the industry to learn the ropes and eventually stab them in the back/go it alone. The Moto Rokr/iTunes phone didn't instill a lot of confidence either, but it's how Apple learned to navigate the mobile industry, and identify talent to poach, all the while secretly working on the iPhone.

[paxys]

IMO people's fascination with tech secrecy is also waning in recent years. Apple's "one more thing" reveals used to get worldwide press, now people prefer Elon tweeting Tesla & SpaceX's hardware and software prototypes literally years before launch.

[Isthatablackgsd]

TBF, it is not because of the tech secrecy. It is more of they don't have a new toys to show, I mean something that stands out. Tesla and SpaceX are new and those toys that the public want to see. They want to see progress, they don't want to see same old things.

[fomine3]

In other words, smartphones and peripherals are become boring now.

[rusk]

Commoditised, you might say.

[yellow_lead]

Is it really because of the physical size of the car? I rather think they're unable to keep it secret because of the large amounts of specialized hiring, supply chain talks, etc

[ABeeSea]

It’s like Amazon’s Fire Phone in 2012/13 on steroids. So much smoke, so much hiring, so much supply chain rumor. It’s definitely real and something impossible to hide.

[MontyCarloHall]

Surely they could’ve done a better job? Test any hardware that cannot be concealed in a secret underground garage, and hardware that can be concealed (e.g. self-driving systems) in cars that look like their streetview vans, which are already bristling with sensors.

[gtirloni]

How's it frustrating to you personally? I don't get it.

[usui]

The person isn't saying it's personally frustrating. The person is saying that it must be frustrating for the people in charge or involved with the project, such as an executive who directs the project but then gets poached by Ford.

[gtirloni]

Oh, I just re-read the comment and I get it now ("it must be..."). Thanks, and sorry.