[BoorishBears]

Are they? Or are they making cars that are less efficient, regardless of battery tech?

The Taycan for example, is clearly not focused on being as efficient as possible. It's an opulent car with all the heavy soundproofing and insulation people buying these types of cars expect.

The Mach E is probably the most normal looking EV suv, and it's Cd ends up being the highest of the bunch despite not even having door handles.

I don't think efficiency is the big win people are acting like it is. Just like there are gas guzzlers and econoboxes that get miles and miles per gallon, there will be more or less efficient EVs.

Efficiency by itself is not going to be a differentiator forever because past a certain range figure, most people's needs are met. From there "splurging" an extra 5 cents per mile to have their preferred car is not a problem

[matthewdgreen]

I'm referring more to the poor production numbers and long delays. Efficiency is relevant insofar as manufacturers with less-efficient technology may need more [and more expensive] battery cells to build competitive cars with comparable range (which the market does demand), and this exacerbates the supply shortages and lowers the profitability of the resulting vehicles. Of course I'm assuming that batteries are a major part of the blocker here -- if not, something sure is.

ETA: What I'm trying to say is that existing automotive supply chains may not be a massive advantage, if the relevant supply chains are battery/motor tech and Tesla has developed the best supply chains for those specific technologies.

[BoorishBears]

That's definitely never been what battery efficiency meant in the EV space, but ignoring that...

>something sure is [the blocker]

Yeah, they didn't want to lol. It's exactly what I said above, they didn't want to go all-in on EVs so they didn't. I know people don't want to accept it's that simple, but that's good old organizational inertia.

Like a rolling boulder, once it slowly picks a new direction, it's not going to lose that momentum either

> if the relevant supply chains are battery/motor tech and Tesla has developed the best supply chains for those specific technologies

So Tesla theoretically has the "best" supply chain for the powertrain (that's questionable)... and the rest of the car?

Batteries and motors are the easiest place to be behind. The raw capacity using "behind" tech can be smoothed over with eating some margin.

But the rest? Even simple body panel availability had eluded Tesla before COVID gave an excuse for it. And that was after 7 years of production! It's unheard of in the industry.

Tesla's supply chain is not anyone's envy in the automotive industry. The only force that can stop major manufacturers from staying competitive just because we changed the engine cars use is their own reluctance, and all signs (and money) point to that no longer being the case.

[_ea1k]

I don't know why he used the term "efficient batteries". I don't really know what that means and basically agree with you. Ford doesn't have great driving efficiency, but it doesn't matter as they've solved for that by using a really big battery.

However, they seem to be severely limited in production capacity due to the limited number of cells available. Right now, everyone other than Tesla seems to be hitting that issue, and Tesla is at least a year ahead. More if they can actually get the 4680 lines running on schedule, but that's a big if.

[fomine3]

So using too much battery for car (or shortage of gigafactories) is current primary problem because EV production is constrained by battery supply, isn't it?

[_ea1k]

Yes, but "too much battery for car" is subjective. The Mach-E has more range than its closest competitors, so they could have used fewer cells and remained competitive.

[matthewdgreen]

There is enough battery capacity to build plenty of Ford Mach-E's. But Ford can't afford to spend $100,000 to manufacture a $50K car, nor can they use recycled laptop batteries that make the car 1000lbs heavier. The problem here is sourcing batteries that are weight- and cost-efficient, and Tesla has been investing heavily in the production of such batteries.