[johmue]

how tiring to argue over this. "Degrowthing" is a means to an end. I don't think many people have a problem with "growth" itself just because they somehow religiously hate anything that growth. It's just that as is we are not exactly making things better and if we do more (without adjusting what we do) then that certainly can't suddenly be better for our planet. If we want to do less damage we have to reduce the damage that we are doing. Certainly selling increasing amounts of "stuff" is not making things better. I you can somehow make it so that any flavour of growth can be done while reducing the impact, great, go ahead.

In short: It's not that I hate cars, I like cars, I like driving. But in order to not break the world we live in we need to make fewer cars and drive them less. If you can suddenly make a car that does significantly less damage or negative damage then PLEASE make it, I will buy it. Growth Yay!

[christkv]

Buy a second hand car. The cost of making it has already been done. Even better a second hand hybrid or electric car. A new car no matter how it’s made will incur substantial material and energy usage.

[illys]

While I agree on not triggering a new build, I still question it:

- When buying second-hand, I still use a share of the car lifespan, and it is this lifespan that makes the value of building it in the first place.

- I buy it from a person or a system (a leasing company in my last car's case) that periodically orders new cars, so I participate in making their business model possible by providing an output.

- Not everyone can live of second hand stuff: since I brought my previous car to its death (near 300.000km), another one has to be created somewhere to allow my next buy.

- Up to what mileage and years is it wise to extend the life of an old car when new ones burn less per km?

- I also calculated my share of atmospheric CO2 for the life of my previous car (6 liters gasoil per 100km over 250.000+ km), and it is a already a disaster for a single car...

That made me consider an electric car (new since they are still very rare second-hand) but only Tesla matches my needs and Tesla does not match my financial reach. Indeed the others are either hybrid-jokes (with 50km full-electric when you have the wind in the back) or city-only electric cars (poor recharge network and only 200km range).

My current idea is to reduce kms by adopting more teleworking (thanks Covid to push my employer to consider it) and waiting for a better offer for electric cars (even new).

[i_am_proteus]

What is the "death" of a car?

Rebuilding a motor or transmission requires less energy and raw materials than making a new one. Replacing a motor or transmission with a new part requires less than making a new car.

But with economies of scale in manufacture, labor costs for repair, plus consumers' perceived need for new vehicles, results in cars being scrapped when they could otherwise be repaired.

[illys]

From my experience (and similar to your conclusion), the "death" is an economic factor: when the fix has a higher monetary cost than a replacement.

My nearly 300.000 km vehicle costed thousands per year in maintenance, and a moderate crash sealed its "death".

Obviously a car in the same condition in a poor country could be fixed by a low-wage worker with used parts for another 100.000 km.

[missedthecue]

Unless you're ordering factory direct, this also applies to new cars. The cost of making it has already been done.