[no_wizard]

It’s moments that I read articles like this that make me wonder why I’m putting so much energy into making a better SPA or trying to engineer solutions to faster more performant web animations. I feel like I’m not using any of my technical acumen to advance human civilization but instead to line my own coffers and those of the corporation I work for.

With that said, it is always good to keep in mind just how fragile civilization as a whole can be to things like global catastrophic events, as this article highlighted these are events that could have happened but did not, thankfully, however if they did the world would be very different today

[whateveracct]

I mean .. do you enjoy the work?

I write Haskell, I make computer games, I make web apps. Mostly because it's fun and satisfying. I'm also quite good at it and it comes easily to me.

I remember when I decided to go into engineering, a peer of mine from high school said "whateveracct, you're top of your class. Why aren't you going into medicine in order to do something more Worthwhile with your life?"

Stuck with me ever since. I was repulsed by the mindset but I couldn't word why at the time. I later realized that it smelled of a deeply nihilistic (as in Nietzsche's ideas) view of the world. Ressentiment comes to mind.

Spending my conscious hours working with computers is a less nihilistic use of my time. I am not deferring this life's happiness and agency in order to "have made an impact" when my life is over and useless to me.

If you want more philosophy, consider Plato's Republic. An ideal society doesn't necessarily have everyone doing Most Important and Dire Work. It doesn't even have them doing what they're most "skilled" at! Instead, it has everyone living in alignment with their souls' desires and preferences. (e.g. A frail person with a Warrior's Soul should be a soldier before a strong person with an Artisan's Soul.)

[gnramires]

I... have to disagree. Either view is too simple.

You're looking for balance of "saving the world" (i.e. our responsibility with civilization and all lifeforms) and "enjoy your life". Clearly if everyone is concerned exclusively with enjoying their lives (i.e. hyper-hedonism), society collapses; that's deeply irresponsible. If everyone is also hyper-focused on self-propagation of our species with zero regard to our actual experience as conscious beings with rich inner lives, then clearly there's the risk of indeed making our inner lives much worse than they could be.

A system I've seen recommended here to think about it is (I've seen it related to Ikigai, a Japanese concept): you need to find a balance between your needs and experience, your skills and potential, and what's good for society at large (in a soft max-min).

I think overall, however, if we give it a little thought it's easy to find something aligned with our interests and potential that can really make a good impact. If you're interested I recommend the Effective Altruism community for a take on this (they're largely focused on more tangible things like Earning to Give) and 80000 hours. In all likelihood, just by being a functional member of our society (and giving what you can), if you don't work for some obviously evil enterprise (idk, making hyper-addictive things, oil field discovery, or something like that), you're probably helping society.

I encourage a different path as well: if you can program (or develop technology) and you're entrepreneurial (many people around here?) you can most likely make something that will make a good impact on society and even civilization at large. Furthering education with online tools, making educational games (or otherwise that promote growth and reflection), making tools more accessible, ... , improving the robustness and reliability of our systems, ..., the list goes on -- why not fulfill your potential to the best you can? Invent the future, Hack the planet.

[whateveracct]

> why not fulfill your potential to the best you can? Invent the future, Hack the planet.

This is exactly what I'm talking about though. If I just use my programming skills to automate some common tasks, make some nice webapps, make some fun or artful video games, etc..that feels like enough.

As far as "why not?"..because the things I list are more interesting and fun for me. And they're already constrained enough by capitalism to "provide value."

And to act like they are not worthwhile life pursuits because they aren't pushing humanity forward is a nihilistic viewpoint because it's focused on spending my life so that after-my-life benefits as if that makes it more morally correct.

Structurally, that's the same mindset as "do good deeds so you go to heaven." Just with a secular greater good. Nihilism nonetheless.

[gnramires]

This doesn't compute.

> And to act like they are not worthwhile life pursuits because they aren't pushing humanity forward is a nihilistic viewpoint because it's focused on spending my life so that after-my-life benefits as if that makes it more morally correct.

What's so special of minds that exist at a later time? Note that under special relativity, spatial separation and temporal separation are relative to frame velocity. In effect, they're basically the same -- other minds, at other places in spacetime. If you accept that minds other than yours are important (as important as yours -- otherwise, what makes you so special to be the only consciousness that matters?), then you should help whether they are now or at some point in the future (of course, there's the question of reliability of impacting the future, but those are more practical questions).

As others mentioned, I don't see how this ethics identifies with nihilism and even less Nietzche's nihilism.

Your view seems more like akin to solipsism: the denial that other minds exist/have value as well. There are strong arguments against solipsism from computational theory of mind (which I may have discovered, I need to publish those).

If you're interested in this kind of stuff, I'm working on a formalization of ethics that aims to answer this sort of question more helpfully and precisely than we've been historically (for now all I have to refer is a subreddit...).

[mpalmer]

In Nietzsche's words:

> A nihilist is a man who judges of the world as it is that it ought not to be, and of the world as it ought to be that it does not exist. According to this view, our existence (action, suffering, willing, feeling) has no meaning: the pathos of 'in vain' is the nihilists' pathos – at the same time, as pathos, an inconsistency on the part of the nihilists.

Where is Nietzsche's nihilism in what you describe? How is your peer's worldview nihilistic when they place a high value on the effect of your potential actions on the world?

Surely for a nihilist, "to have made an impact" is a non-goal.

[whateveracct]

> Surely for a nihilist, "to have made an impact" is a non-goal.

Not when the reason for making that impact is for, say, leaving a legacy after your death, getting into heaven (Christianity is very nihilistic according to Nietzsche), "having done 'something' with your life." Those are all very nihilistic-as-in-Nietzsche.

Nihilism is first and foremost deferring this life for something else, and I think my peer's views definitely fell into that definition.

[mpalmer]

> Nihilism is first and foremost deferring this life for something else.

Anything you can cite for this? It doesn't sound like any kind of nihilism I'm familiar with but I'm interested to know more.

[whateveracct]

Hm it was how my professors in school taught nihilism and Nietzsche. It was definitely a high level takeaway from many readings we did and not a single quote or citation. But it was on the exam ;)

I don't have any sources behind that atm, but I'd guess it would be somewhere around the discussion of the afterlife and how it is a Christian driver of nihilism.

[no_wizard]

Yes, I genuinely do enjoy the work and I derive happiness in my field, in fact I want to do more not less to drive the field forward.

That does not mean I don’t sometimes feel the guilt of not being apart of something that drives humanity forward, though, even if all I could contribute was working the website that raises awareness instead! I just know what I’m capable of, but the reality vs the ideal is the philosophical struggle here for me.

I instead try to make conscious investments to try and move things forward and make personal choices consciously to issues like this as best as I reasonably can.

I still feel guilty sometimes I’m not working on something like raising the perception of the safety of nuclear energy ya know

[amelius]

> I later realized that it smelled of a deeply nihilistic (as in Nietzsche's ideas) view of the world.

Who says you can't enjoy work in a different field, e.g. medicine? Perhaps you can even combine those skills with computer programming. E.g. build an exoskeleton that makes partially paralyzed people walk again.

[stank345]

I know how you feel. You might be interested in the 80,000 hours podcast as a way to gain a better understanding of the problems humanity faces: https://80000hours.org/podcast/

In terms of what to _do_ about it as a software developer, I'm still trying to figure that one out. I currently work at a BCorp which tends to make me feel better about the work I'm doing which at a minimum isn't doing harm to the world. You could try looking for a meaningful job at https://techjobsforgood.com/

[cardosof]

I share the same thoughts - and I hope one day we reach a level of automation/AI/cheap energy that everyone gets "for free" some sort of living allowance to pursue their own objectives in science or art.

[basmango]

Those two things are very different in terms of difficulty. That is why you aren't doing them.

[beckman466]

> I feel like I’m not using any of my technical acumen to advance human civilization

What would you rather be working on?

[no_wizard]

I’m not saying I’m going to crack some crazy software problem like general AI or something, but theoretically I’d love to be working on something that pushes renewable energy forward.

In what capacity I don’t know. I’m pretty convinced we are overlooking geothermal energy in the USA at least. I often wonder if we could both relieve potentially dangerous pressure bellowing Yellowstone while simultaneously harnessing its geothermal energy for example

But alas, I think the reality is I lack the expertise to even talk about this with any authority

[finfinfin]

Not saying you should but it is possible to gain a pretty respectable level of knowledge in almost any area within just a couple of years. Take online classes or even complete a fully online MS program. There are many examples of engineers and entrepreneurs who started in CS and then transitioned to more personally meaningful areas. (that’s my plan anyway!)

[Swizec]

Easiest solution to this is finding a company that can put your skills towards something that advances humanity. If no such company exists in your view, you can make one.

SPAs and code are tools. You can use them for all sorts of endeavours.