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by ggggoz 1756 days ago
What are the core principles of being woke?
3 comments

No idea, but i love McWhorter ideas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDlmSn3aGYU
You don’t know the core principles of the thing you want to cancel? What do you know about the thing you want to cancel?
That generally isn't necessary in cancel culture. Generic outrage suffices. /s
How are the core principles relevant? Look at outcomes.
Why would you ask someone who doesn't understand a concept to explain it?
You would certainly ask someone who despises a concept to explain what it is that they dislike. Major red flags if they cannot.
I don’t know about you, but I try avoid hating that which I do not understand.
Yes, but propaganda for intolerance requires that you hate something ill-defined, shifting, "other". Examples throughout this thread.
Not sure how that's important. Very often looking from the outside, and particularly at outcomes, is quite sufficient.

I really don't have to understand the core principles of Maoism to be opposed.

I really don't have to understand the core principles of the Khmer Rouge to be opposed.

I really don't have to understand the core principles of Fascism to be opposed.

I really don't have to understand the core principles of Stalinism to be opposed.

What's more, what the core principles are may not be very relevant, because very often the most heinous acts are performed in the service of supposedly very fine "principles". In fact, the more hallowed the principles, the more permission/cover they often give to their followers for the most heinous acts. After all, they are doing this in the name of what is good and righteous.

And of course, this "do you understand X" is typically a deflection, particularly if X does its damn best to obscurantist. And this is often deployed quite tactically.

[flagged]
loose constellation of ideas

Yeah, right in the article it clearly says there's no definition, right in the first sentence you quoted.

> systems of language ... are dismantled

Newspeak to the rescue.

- a belief that any disparities between racial groups are evidence of structural racism

This is maybe too broad but mostly true. I mean, has the author read like any American history?

- that the norms of free speech, individualism and universalism which pretend to be progressive are really camouflage for this discrimination

I’d say this is largely not relevant but the thing people see as this is largely just individuals no longer “playing along” with other folks using terms & language that demean them.

- and that injustice will persist until systems of language and privilege are dismantled

Language? No. Privilege? Probably! It’s easy to point out political dynasty privilege or obvious hollywood nepotism but it’s not the only type of privilege that gives some of us a leg up and others of us a massive hill to climb just to get to zero.

> I mean, has the author read like any American history?

They believe that it's the same outside America as well, so American history doesn't matter. E.g. Turks in Germany (who immigrated in the 60ies) don't achieve as much as native Germans after three generations => structural racism. Asian immigrants do quickly achieve as much and more than native Germans => more structural racism, I guess.

Regarding the treatment of Turkish immigrants in Germany, I'd recommend you read "Ganz Unten" (Gunther Wallraff, 1985) which sent shockwaves through Germany when it was published for revealing the racism people liked to pretend wasn't an issue at the time, and leading to many thousands of criminal investigations over the treatment of immigrant labour.

While that was a long time ago, it by no means it fixed the issues.