[techrat]

Except all Amazon has done was taken a group marginalized by the prison system (war on drugs) and is taking advantage of their position (drug testing vulnerable or felon status due to drug arrests) and putting them in a situation where they are at the absolute mercy of Amazon if anything were to happen. (Get T-boned by someone who ran a red light? We'll drug test you and fire you for cause even if you were sober at the time.)

This is an extension of prison labor.

[ineedasername]

This is an extension of prison labor.

Work in prisons is often not optional, and if it is the inmate may not earn "good behavior" time if they choose not to work. It also averages something like $0.60/hour across the country.

I don't think $17/hour & mandatory sobriety are anything close to prison labor, but I will grant you that it isn't consistent or fair to fire someone that tests positive for marijuana if they weren't high at the time of the accident. Is there a way to test if someone is currently high on weed vs. has simply had some recently?

[robocat]

> It also averages something like $0.60/hour across the country

Is that equivalent to disposable income? What percentage of people in the US are left with $24 (or less) disposable after 40 hours minimum wage?

I had a friend who was left with NZD20 to spend on themselves after a full week of work (after food, shared rent, power, and other true expenses; non-smoker with zero savings of any kind).

[ineedasername]

Without overtime, $17/hour works out to nearly the exact personal median wage in the US, and I don't think that making more than 50% of the population is a situation that can be accurately compared to forced prison labor.

So, yes: Some people have no disposable income at all. Some live in debt. Sometimes they have no choice, sometimes it's poor planning. None of that is the equivalent of forced labor, Or longer imprisonment if the prisoner chooses not to work.

To be clear though, I haven't done a thorough examination of my own opinion on the ethics of prison labor, wages, etc. I'm not stating an opinion on that one way or another. I'm just saying that it is not a valid target of comparison against Amazon's wages in this case.

[gruez]

>This is an extension of prison labor.

You lost me with that hyperbole. I fail to see how you can equate voluntarily working for a company earning at least minimum wage and other benefits, as "prison labor".

[pope_meat]

It's amazing we have so many volunteers for some of the worst jobs around. Happy volunteers, voluntarily working. You can see it on their faces, at 8:37pm pulling packages out of a van and running to a door, happy little contractors, happily volunteering.

[gruez]

Alright, let's flip the question: what doesn't constitute an "extension of prison labor"? If you think everything is an "extension of prison labor" that's not really an interesting statement. Is being a prehistoric hunter-gatherer also an "extension of prison labor"? It seems to check your boxes. Risking your life to hunt for woolly mammoths definitely seems more risky than delivering packages at 8:37pm, so I doubt those hunters were "happy volunteers, voluntarily working".

[matheusmoreira]

Well, today's society isn't that far off from slavery. The main difference is the lash has been replaced by economic punishments. People have the gall to call work voluntary when you literally starve if you opt out. Most workers will not see much improvement in their quality of life despite working hard for long hours.

We'll be free once our basic necessities are taken care of unconditionally. That means food, housing... Everything needed for a life with dignity. Until then, we are slaves to the current economic system whether we want to or not. We are not in a position where we can say "no, I don't want to do this anymore" without serious consequences.

[gruez]

>Well, today's society isn't that far off from slavery. The main difference is the lash has been replaced by economic punishments. People have the gall to call work voluntary when you literally starve if you opt out.

What's the difference between having to work or else you starve, and having to hunt/gather or else you starve?

[pope_meat]

Hunter gatherer society actually included A LOT of downtime. People are being worked to death, and it's reflected in the deteriorating mental health that's prevalent.

I'll have to ask the guy next time I see him if he feels like "it's voluntary", because someone on the internet said "well, actually, they choose this!"

The contractor/gig economy is absolutely gross, and the vast majority of people are turning a blind eye because it's just so nice "for the consumer"

The consumer is actually more important than the human. Are you seriously going to tell me you don't understand what's wrong here?

[gruez]

>Hunter gatherer society actually included A LOT of downtime

Why is downtime relevant here? We're talking about whether it's voluntary or not. Also, does that mean prison labor isn't prison labor if they're sufficient "downtime"?

>People are being worked to death, and it's reflected in the deteriorating mental health that's prevalent.

Okay, the working conditions are bad, I never denied that. But you know what's worse? Being a prehistoric hunter-gatherer. I'm going to go on a limb and say that hunting woolly mammoths is orders of magnitude more dangerous. If that's the metric we're using then their "extension of prison labor"-ness is off the charts compared to amazon.

>I'll have to ask the guy next time I see him if he feels like "it's voluntary", because someone on the internet said "well, actually, they choose this!"

I'll reiterate my question from the prior comment: are hunter-gatherers' hunting activities "voluntary"? If not, does that mean what they're doing is an "extension of prison labor"?

>Are you seriously going to tell me you don't understand what's wrong here?

I acknowledge the unfavorable working conditions that they're under, but I disagree with the characterization that it's an "extension of prison labor". Comparing it to that might provide shock value for how bad their working conditions are, but it's a disservice to the actual prison labor population because it trivializes their issues.