[f0e4c2f7]

I've wanted a service like this to exist but didn't know about this company. Does it really feel like they're you're "agent"? Lots of recruiters pitch themselves that way but it's clearly transactional.

What's it like actually working with them? You get a call every now and then? Is the main benefit not having to engage in the job search or have you found the salaries to be higher? Do they take a percentage of your overall salary like agents in Hollywood or is it more like the traditional model (company pays $50k up front for the privilege to hire you)

[gregjor]

I think the 10X web site explains how they work -- see the FAQ and Guides (10xmanagement.com).

They do act as my agent -- their model is the same as entertainment and sports agents. I pay them a percentage of my gross. They do all of the marketing, contract negotiation, legal, billing, deal with customers and get additional resources as necessary. They put projects in front of me, I get to decide what I take on. In general I'm getting higher rates through 10X than I would get on my own, and they do things that I'm not good at or that would cost me non-billable time.

I had my own freelance business when I signed on with 10X. I had decided to live overseas and got worried about getting new customers in the US, and 10X seemed like a good way to maintain and grow my freelance business.

See https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/programmers-pr.... The article mentions me.

Recruiters and placement firms get paid by the employer, so that's who they work for. I have worked with placement firms who place contractors. Some of them act kind of like agents, others hire the contractor as an employee and then outsource to companies who need people and skills. All kinds of arrangements are possible, it's kind of a seller's market in IT right now, at least in the US, for people who have in-demand skills and experience.

[zerr]

Seems like Toptal? Also, the FAQ and the whole website is oriented only towards clients on the one side - those who are in need of devs. What about the clients on the other side - the devs? Can you share what percentage they take from devs?

[gregjor]

To be clear, I am not representing 10X Management in these comments, except as a satisfied client (I have been with 10X since 2013).

10X has a portal for clients (like me) to maintain our profiles. We have a Slack and a mailing list. Most of my contact with them is through my agent, who will tell me about projects that I might have an interest in.

Toptal is more like a traditional outsourcing agency, 10X is modeled on talent agencies.

I have not worked for Toptal, I know some people who do. Anecdotally Toptal charges their customers approximately double the rate they pay their freelancers, though that varies. I understand their freelancers are under NDA not to reveal what Toptal pays them. I have heard a few complaints from freelancers that Toptal pays low rates and varies what they pay by geography. To be fair I have also talked to freelancers who are very happy working through Toptal.

10X Management takes a percentage of gross billings and pays the rest to me. I don't want to get into numbers but I can say 10X takes a lot less than 50%. They aren't charging customers double what they pay me, in other words. You can Google for comments on the 10X percentage, it's consistent with what agents get in the entertainment and music industries. As I mentioned 10X has consistently negotiated higher rates than I was getting on my own, even with their percentage. As a solo freelancer without much presence or PR/marketing the credibility and marketing and professional agents are worth something to me. The 10X founders are frequently on Bloomberg News, for example. Just not having to deal with invoices and collecting payment is worth something to me -- as a freelancer you want to make most of your work time billable.

[zerr]

Interesting, did you have to do leetcode bs in order to hire them?

[gregjor]

No leetcode. I had a series of phone interviews, they asked for multiple code samples, and they contacted references and current/former customers. 10X was more interested in my communication and consistency with customers, and my ability to get new customers on my own. They are big on soft skills, listening to the customer, understanding business requirements, consistent communication. Technical ability matters of course, but freelance contracts usually succeed or fail for reasons other than understanding algorithms. My niche is taking over legacy systems and failed/failing projects, which few programmers want to do, and the 10x founders who interviewed me liked that angle.

Before 10X gave me any projects I met with two of the founders, at a party they threw in San Francisco.

[f0e4c2f7]

Wow thats absolutely incredible. Thanks for taking the time to answer. Seems like a great model!