[dec0dedab0de]

That's not fair to UBI.

Not everyone got it, so it wasn't universal.

They shut down most small businesses, so the benefits of the extra income were consolidated in a few major companies.

The housing market went up because people who were previously happy to live in an expensive small apartment in a busy city were suddenly forced to stay inside most of the time, and realized they would rather have a bigger place.

[systemvoltage]

Not convinced. Inflation would skyrocket, asset-holders will get richer and inequality would get worse if it already isn't. The fella working at McDonalds would get shortchanged for not playing the asset-bubble stock-bubble game as he/she is serving $20 burgers to customers.

[dec0dedab0de]

That may be true, but my point was that this is not a good example of UBI. This is a global pandemic, and a bunch of actions around it.

Though since we're talking about it, I think UBI might work if we also outlawed fractional reserve banking.

Currently, new money is created when banks lend out more than they have, I think they like to call it "leverage." This creates a type of inflation, but the only ones benefiting are the banks and the people/businesses they choose to loan money to.

Instead of allowing leveraged bank loans, we could create the same inflation by blatantly printing new money every year and distributing it equally. This would give the benefits of inflation to everyone. If you wanted to start a business, instead of getting a cheap loan you would have to crowd fund it, because all the money(power) that was in the hands of banks is now everywhere. If we needed to control inflation, we could have taxes and remove the money collected from the pool instead of using it.

It would be a bit of a balancing act to make sure enough people keep working, and that prices don't get too high, but I think it's doable.

[dnautics]

I think systemsvoltages' point is that if it's "not a good example of UBI" because not everyone got stimulus, an actual, scotsman UBI would be even worse, precisely because everyone would get stimulated.

[bee_rider]

Was this actually the last nail in the coffin for you? Or had the coffin already been buried?

[vineyardmike]

> Inflation would skyrocket, asset-holders will get richer and inequality would get worse if it already isn't.

1) I don't think UBI would be that much money per person. The UBI proposals are alternatives to food stamps, not jobs.

2) The people with money to burn and buy assets and $20 burgers would lost more than their UBI due to taxes.

Aside, in expensive west coast cities we already have $20 burgers

[systemvoltage]

$20 McDonalds burgers (the point was not about burgers at all but about inflation).

I am fine with providing social services to alleviate homelessness needs. Getting these people jobs would be the way to go. For those that cannot find jobs or are mentally unstable - they can continue to live off welfare.

UBI would go to 99.9% of the polulation that is not homeless.