[version_five]

I find the idea that everyone needs an address is outdated and harmful at least to some groups. For various reasons, I've spent lots of time with "no fixed address" but I'm still forced to declare a permanent home address for my driver's license, healthcare, credit cards, etc. Worse, if you move between provinces regularly, many services differ depending what province you're "living in". You end up having to lie and rely on someone who does have a stable address, which should not be requirements of going about your business.

[ghaff]

You've sort of identified the problem. Services/taxes/laws/etc. differ from one province/state to the other. So it actually matters where you're a resident (and where you're physically employed--if you are at a fixed office). I guess the alternative would be to have some sort of country-level no fixed residence/federal district status but I can't imagine a lot of demand for it (at least among those who have to political capital to push for such a thing) and I can imagine a lot of abuse if the terms were favorable. (ADDED: And people would just continue to fake things if they were't.)

[version_five]

Another way of looking at it is that tying taxes and other services to the notion of "residency" is outdated. Where I am, we pay income tax based on our province of residence, so if you work out of province (and many do in border areas) you still pay income tax where you claim your residence is. Maybe this should be simplified so that some other factor defines tax jurisdiction... likewise with drivers licensing, why can't I "buy in" to the licensing system of some jurisdiction. Same with healthcare if it's covered.

I certainly imagine there are lots of flaws in my ideas, but it would be nice to see steps away from the assumption that each of us has a long term residence we can get mail at. Just like you used to need to provide a "home telephone", it's becoming less valid of an assumption.

Like you say though, its probably not high enough on many peoples agendas, and is threatening enough to tax revenues (it would mean competition if nothing else) that it's unlikely to happen

[UnFleshedOne]

Actually paying income taxes where you live kinda makes sense, since those taxes are used mostly for local services and such. Alternative is to merge provinces and just have one national level system.

[ghaff]

And different state populations have different overall philosophies about how much and how they tax, the types and levels of services they provide, etc. In the US, eliminating state taxation authority is effectively taking a lot or power away from states and giving it to the federal government which... isn't happening. Certainly not short of constitutional amendment(s).

[calvinmorrison]

> I find the idea that everyone needs an address is outdated and harmful at least to some groups.

The #1 thing the USPS could have done to retain customers would be to have an actual sane forwarding service. I just had a company I worked at 10 years ago call me for an updated address because I had mail that kept going there after being returned from an address I had 5 years ago...

I wish I could just tell the USPS my current address, and instead just list an address for leters that would forward to my actual address.

(yes this exists as a forwarding service, but we could skip all that)

[ryandrake]

Taking this even further, I wish I could just give out some randomish 64 character string for an address, and that the USPS could translate that string into a physical address for delivery. Then, when I move, I just notify the post office, and they update my entry in the look-up table. If I'm going to be without a physical address, no problem, they can make the look-up table point to a PO box or something.

There is no good reason that I should need to give someone literal directions to my physical house, just so they can send a letter to me. Only the post office (and other delivery companies) need to know the physical address to send their trucks to.

[ckorhonen]

USPS is actually working on this, though more slanted towards marketers: https://www.productionsolutions.com/up-next-from-usps-inform...

> USPS is now piloting a new technology platform: Informed Address (IA).

> This innovative concept enables mail to be sent and delivered without a consumer’s physical address. Instead, Informed Address allows recipients to use identifiers including an email address, social media handles, or a custom name for mail processing and delivery functions.

> As privacy remains a top concern, Informed Address will replace the delivery point with a unique code where the usual IMB (Intelligent Mail Barcode) is substituted with an “Informed Address IMB”, which contains the physical address information. This allows customers the enhanced privacy and identity protection, as marketers will no longer need to obtain or hold a physical address for their mail communications.

> During the testing period, the USPS will assess consumer engagement, gauge mailer interest, and determine technical feasibility. This new technology provides the opportunity for marketers to provide additional services, including vanity address development and enhanced consumer targeting for B2B and B2C marketing.

[evan_]

and you could give each entity you interact with a different 64 character string.

[jaycroft]

After dealing with changing dozens of addresses and forgetting to change countless more after moving every few years, I have always dreamed of a DNS like service for mail. Give me a serial number, then I don't need to keep my address on file with anyone except for the post office (and maybe FedEx and UPS).

[bserge]

What, like a mail forwarder like MyUS?

Would that be legal in the US? It sure wouldn't be in most of Europe because you don't live there. Which for some fucking reason is a must.

[ratww]

> I find the idea that everyone needs an address is outdated and harmful at least to some groups

Yeah, it is in fact very harmful to homeless, refugees, and even common immigrants ("expats"), among other groups. In some countries, you need a registered or confirmed address for things like opening a bank account, getting a prepaid phone, or even getting a job. Not having those things also prevents you from getting a home, so it's a vicious circle.

[speeder]

I had a bizarre issue with that, where I wanted to get married, and to get the marriage license I needed a permanent address that was mine, not my parents.

But to rent a place, several of them required me to have a family income that was only enough if I had my wife with me, but since we weren't married officially yet, it didn't count.

[ratww]

Yep. Another crazy example: in Germany you often need a registered address to open a bank account, which is often a requirement for renting an apartment in the first place. The government had to intervene and make a law in the end, although most banks still drag their feet.

[ghaff]

Part of it is that things like driver's licenses and residency generally are not actually at the federal level. They're at the level of the states. And lots of real money is involved with respect to state taxes.

There could presumably be a "no fixed address" category at the federal level but don't hold your breath as this is an outlier among people who earn enough to pay taxes and would absolutely be abused if it existed.

I actually agree there is an edge case of people who are nomadic for at least a period who genuinely don't have a fixed address and have to "fake it." I'm also not sure it's a large enough category to institute the significant changes needed to deal with it.

[bserge]

Why are PO boxes or mail forwarding services not allowed then?

Just send all mail to that, if notice of a fine doesn't reach you, proceed as if it was ignored. Seems reasonable to me.

[ghaff]

In part, because basically anyone [ADDED: who didn't physically work in a high tax state] who didn't actually own property who lived in a high tax state would establish an "address of convenience" in a no income tax state.

[bserge]

How are they employed in the high tax state, then?

OK, I can see it now with remote work being common (why live in a CoL state then?), but these laws are way older than that.

[ghaff]

This was in the context of someone who was nomadic. Otherwise, of course, you need to live near where you work. And if you work in a high tax state, you need to pay those taxes anyway even if you live across the state border in a state without taxes (as is often the case with NH and MA).

Lots of things factor into where people live. I live in a fairly high CoL location and could move pretty much anywhere in the US I wanted to. But I have a house and like where I am for various reasons so moving is unlikely.