[chamsom]

California law TB117 required fire retardant foam until 2015 so a lot of couches have PFAS. This is an example of creating a problem by trying to avoiding another. Of course, this is not to single out CA as this is a global problem.

Could be wrong but it seems like the general rule is that manufacturers are allowed to "experiment in public" when it comes to chemical science. PFAS alternatives are already in the wild and we don't know what those do either.

Here's what you can do:

1. Open windows to your house, but also your car which contains PFAS in the upholstery

2. Minimize dust w/ vacuum, HEPA filters

3. Reduce use of old couches which stirs up dust until you replace it

4. Minimize polyurethane foam products - polyster foam is better

5. Paper/biodegradable takeout containers and fast food packaging have PFAS lined so the paper doesn't absorb oil etc.

[nate_meurer]

No, fire retardants used in furniture are not based on PFAS chemicals. Fire retardants are almost exclusively BPDE's:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybrominated_diphenyl_ethers

PFAS chemicals are used in fire suppression foam at airports and by the military, but that's a different (but still huge) problem.

[forgotmypw17]

PBDEs have been shown to have hormone-disrupting effects, in particular, on estrogen and thyroid hormones.[10] A 2009 animal study conducted by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) demonstrates that deiodination, active transport, sulfation, and glucuronidation may be involved in disruption of thyroid homeostasis after perinatal exposure to PBDEs during critical developmental time points in utero and shortly after birth.[11] The adverse effects on hepatic mechanism of thyroid hormone disruption during development have been shown to persist into adulthood.[citation needed] The EPA noted that PBDEs are particularly toxic to the developing brains of animals.[11] Peer-reviewed studies have shown that even a single dose administered to mice during development of the brain can cause permanent changes in behavior, including hyperactivity.[12]

Swedish scientists first reported substances related to pentaBDE were accumulating in human breast milk.[13] Studies by the Swedish Society for Nature Conservation found for the first time very high levels of more highly brominated PBDEs (BDE-209) in eggs of peregrine falcons.[14] Two forms of PBDEs, penta- and octaBDE, are no longer manufactured in the United States because of health and safety concerns. Based on a comprehensive risk assessment under the Existing Substances Regulation 793/93/EEC, the European Union has completely banned the use of penta- and octaBDE since 2004.[15] However, both chemicals are still found in furniture and foam items made before the phase-out was completed. The most common PBDEs used in electronics are decaBDE. DecaBDE is banned in Europe for this use and in some U.S. states. For PBDE, EPA has set reference dose of 7 micrograms per kilogram of body weight, which is "believed to be without appreciable effects". However, Linda Birnbaum, PhD, a senior toxicologist formerly with the EPA (now at NIEHS) notes concern: "What I see is another piece of evidence that supports the fact that levels of these chemicals in children appear to be higher than the levels in their parents; I think this study raises a red flag."[16]

Increasing levels of PBDEs in the environment may be responsible for the increasing incidence of feline hyperthyroidism.[17] A study in 2007 found PBDE levels in cats 20- to 100-fold greater than median levels in U.S. adults, although it was not adequately powered to establish an association between hyperthyroid cats and serum PBDE levels.[18] Subsequent studies have indeed found such an association.[19][20][21]

An experiment conducted at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in 2005 showed that the isotopic signature of methoxy-PBDEs found in whale blubber contained carbon-14, the naturally occurring radioactive isotope of carbon. Methoxy-PBDEs are produced by some marine species.[22] If the methoxy-PBDEs in the whale had come from artificial (human-made) sources, they would have contained only stable isotopes of carbon because virtually all PBDEs that are produced artificially use petroleum as the source of carbon; all carbon-14 would have long since completely decayed from that source.[23] The isotopic signatures of the PBDEs themselves were not evaluated. The carbon-14 may instead be in methoxy groups enzymatically added to man-made PBDEs.

A 2010 study found that children with higher concentrations of PBDE congeners 47, 99 and 100 in their umbilical cord blood at birth scored lower on tests of mental and physical development between the ages of one and six. Developmental effects were particularly evident at four years of age, when verbal and full IQ scores were reduced 5.5 to 8.0 points for those with the highest prenatal exposures after correcting for sex, ethnicity, tobacco smoke exposure, and mother's IQ.[24]

[BitwiseFool]

I don't want flame retardants in my products. I suspect most of these requirements came from the era when a lot more people smoked. Sure, put flame retardants in oven mitts and things that will reasonably catch fire, rather than things like pillowcases.

Even still, how common were couch fires 20+ years ago when flame based (non-vaping) smoking was so much more common?

[kwhitefoot]

> .. oven mitts .. that will reasonably catch fire, ..

Or make them from densely woven wool. The ignition temperature is higher than all of the common textiles and it does not melt.

See https://iwto.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/IWTO_Wool-Fire.p...

[ruined]

couch fires happen every day. a thing to note is that couches are really just very fluffy aerated flammable plastic, and they burn extremely well.

i don't want fire retardants in couches either, but it's easy to see how the choice was made to mandate it.

[fomine3]

But how without cigarettes?

[tharkun__]

Like my sibling sort of did I want to point out that this possibly was meant to counter another trend. Unfortunately furniture nowadays burn much faster than before.

They did an experiment. Built one room with old furniture made from solid wood and other "old style materials" and set it on fire. Then they built another one with modern materials with the typical particle board furniture. Set it on fire.

Not many more words needed. Just watch: https://youtu.be/aDNPhq5ggoE

[danudey]

Also, California's law that makes everyone label everything with "this product contains some measurable level of an identified carcinogen" means that no one pays attention to those labels when it's plastered on something like an asbestos breathing mask or lick-and-paint radon clocks, making them even worse than useless.

[azinman2]

Or the alternative: there are a huge amount of dangerous products in the market that we all shouldn’t be using. Thank you California for bringing this to our consciousness.

Personally I’m very content with these labels and actually avoid products that contain the warning. It’s only because of prop 65 that I recently learned many seaweeds contain high levels of arsenic, lead, and other heavy metals.

[riversflow]

Bruce Ames, biochemist and molecular biologist, inventor of the Ames Test and a prolific and accomplished scientist in the areas of cancer and aging[1], believes that prop 65 is a, "thoroughly silly law, with an enormous cost and no gain in public health"[2]. Interesting and relevant discussion in this PDF[3] about the fire retardants discussed elsewhere in this thread.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Ames

[2] PDF warning https://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...

[3] PDF warning https://www.prop65clearinghouse.com/documents/19184

[l30n4da5]

> HEPA filters

This is probably the most important. If you work from home, it might be prudent to at least have a one-room HEPA filter in your home office.

[intrasight]

I have in furnance airflow and also one in bedroom.

[barbazoo]

I'm having trouble figuring out what kind of filter I can use for my furnace. I've read a little bit about it and it seems that a residential furnace might not be able to handle the HEPA filter due to the higher airflow resistance. Even MERV 13 might already be too high.

[bradfa]

The MERV or other rating of a filter is not what's important to your furnace (it's what's important to the humans) but what matters is how much airflow through the filter can be achieved by the furnace fan and how much pressure drop the filter induces.

If you get a MERV 12 filter with LOTS of filter material, it may flow more air at a lower pressure drop than a MERV 6 filter with minimal filter material. Look for more pleats in the filter or modify (or hire an HVAC contractor to modify) your furnace filter cabinet to accept a thicker filter cartridge.

For reference, in my furnace during an HVAC consultation, we saw the same 0.5 inches of water pressure drop from a cheap 3M Filtrete MERV 7 filter as with a K&N reusable MERV 12 filter. The K&N has MUCH more filter material.

You don't want to restrict the airflow to your furnace any more than is necessary. Most furnaces will have their required maximum pressure drop from the duct work and filter printed on a label inside. You can get a differential pressure meter to measure the actual pressure drops yourself, or hire an HVAC technician to do an audit of your furnace (often they'll do lots of other neat tests and give you lots of data and reports and info, too).

[barbazoo]

Thank you, I'll do that!!!