[yjftsjthsd-h]

That's all unrelated to my point; per your first link:

> The sysvinit init system is still available in "Jessie".

I was asking if this had since changed, since last I'd paid attention you could in fact run Debian without systemd.

[kafkaIncarnate]

Okay bad link. Apparently the jessie support for sysvinit is mostly because the service files were still there. It seems they didn't have any intention of maintaining those services, and other software that requires the use of it would simply fail to work if you installed sysvinit because much of it required the usage of systemd and/or dbus.

https://lwn.net/Articles/585319/ https://www.itwire.com/open-source/debian-revisits-systemd-v...

So, I guess I assumed that since there was hysteria around systemd becoming the default and the non-systemd users needing to create a new fork (Devuan) to get SystemD out of their Debian installs, it might have been to be compatible with other software:

https://www.devuan.org/os/announce/

"As many of you might know already, the Init GR Debian vote promoted by Ian Jackson wasn't useful to protect Debian's legacy and its users from the systemd avalanche.

This situation prospects a lock in systemd dependencies which is de-facto threatening freedom of development and has serious consequences for Debian, its upstream and its downstream."

Choice 2:B is also the "new" decision to expand and allow exploring alternatives to SystemD in 2019, which is a change I was unaware of as well:

https://lwn.net/Articles/804254/ https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002#textb

I'm sure this won't satisfy you, but I'm done. I've followed this for far too long as it is, and I don't need to rehash more dumb mailing list arguments.