[johnNumen]

Here is Orwell's essay about his time at a public school, "Such, Such Were the Joys." I, an American, had had a romantic view of these schools for years, after reading Harry Potter as a youngster. Reading this essay disabused me of my enchanted castle imaginings. It also speaks more generally of the cruelty of the old ways of thinking about children and sexuality.

https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/joys/english/e_joys

[charlysl]

As a little boy's dad, thanks for the link, that was deep, and what a writer, Orwell, better known for his novels but also a formidable essayist. In this vein, I would like to recommend Montaigne's "On the education of children" (yes, I know that showing gratitude is discouraged in this forum)

[quacked]

Thanks for the essay, bookmarked.

I would like to offer a perspective I don't think you should miss. Many English authors wrote about their horrible experiences in boarding schools and of life in stodgy, middle-to-upper-class Britain; I find that sentiments similar to theirs persist in many people who came out of what we would call "repressive youth systems". You can hear similar complaints from the children of Nigerian immigrants or of Indian students who came through the IIT network, namely that they were pushed too hard by cruel people and uncaring systems.

However, I must notice that these people, especially the British authors, are often proud, learned, disciplined, well-spoken, and knowledgeable. The horrible memories they have of their past experiences are saddening, but I cannot deny that whatever repressive and authoritarian systems spawned them often did a damn fine job at raising extremely impressive men and women. I went through far less cruel or invasive schooling than they did, and cannot make the same assessment about the subjective worth of the vast majority of my peers, nor even for their parents. When I read prose of average middle-class thinkers, journalists, authors, etc. from more than 60 years ago to today, I see very plainly a marked downturn in the civic knowledge, moral backbone, and eloquence of these speakers and of the thoughts themselves as Western society moves away from its severe past into its "empathetic" future.

I myself harbor extreme anti-school sentiments and do not ever intend to send my future children to school unless they desperately want to go, but I still believe that extreme, conservative societies tend to produce the most impressive human specimens. Orwell is considered one of the greatest writers in the English language--I often wonder whether or not contemporary society is capable of producing his equal, or even his less impressive peers' equal. When I read the letters and musing of my grandparents- normal American country folk born in the 1930s- I am taken aback by their knowledge and eloquence, and I mourn for what I perceive as a loss of societal standards.

I suppose there are many who might mistake me for saying that I think it's worth returning to the cargo-cult corporal-punishment methods outline in the essay, but that is not what I wish to communicate. I would like to figure out what makes these citizens of strict and severe societies so impressive, and see if it's possible to yield similar results without all of the stupidity and cruelty.

[johnNumen]

Excellent point! There has often been a part of me that has secretly wished for a slightly more rigorous schooling, even if that would have meant some pain and sacrifice. There is so much that can be accomplished when one is young that can't be made up for later on (languages in particular). The movie "Whiplash" is thematically relevant--an emotionally abusive director of an elite music school orchestra, when confronted by the student he has been targeting, explains that he treats his pupils so poorly because he thinks that all of the pain is worth it if even one of them goes on to become a truly great musician.

[quacked]

I have thought similar things about Whiplash. On the one hand, I find that J.K. Simmons's character was a monster, one who I would have a hard time not coming to blows with if he treated a family member in the way he treats Miles Teller's character. On the other hand, he leads the most elite student band in the (country?), and anyone who could make it out of the other end of his tutelage with their mind intact would be an incredibly proficient musician with the tenacity to endure many different directing styles of various intensity. I am reminded of the Chinese students that I met during my undergraduate degree who breezed through math that kept me up late into the night. Yes, perhaps their upbringing was cruel, but they have minds made of iron compared to myself and many of my Western peers. I still haven't decided whether or not the trade-off is worth it.