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by lugged 1764 days ago
"the parts of masculinity that are toxic".

Which parts are those?

The Wikipedia article is pretty disturbingly biased but let's go with it for lack of anything else:

> Traits traditionally viewed as masculine in Western society include strength, courage, independence, leadership, and assertiveness.

What of those do you consider toxic? Personally I view them as all relatively useful for many situations and contexts. I don't view any of them as toxic, though I would posit some extreme assertiveness in places it's not wanted would be "toxic". But I think thats more likely a toxic individual than masculinity being "toxic".

I view feminine traits in much the same way, mostly being advantageous when leveraged appropriately and unhelpful when employed at the wrong time.

But I'm not about to start suggesting parts of feminity are toxic.

Further more if you want to say masculinity has toxic parts, say that instead of saying toxic masculinity, because we all know what you really mean when you say it that way.

5 comments

It's supposed to mean stuff like not asking for help when you need it, or being overly aggressive in social situations so you don't appear weak. FWIW I hate the term because it's become a catch-all for "things men do that I personally don't like".
Not asking for help sounds like stubbornness and inability to admit a failure or lack of knowledge.That's more a cultural thing from my experience. Common in Asian cultures but also prevelant in older western generations.

Being overly aggressive sounds like a character flaw, psychological problem or poor social conditioning.

I guess if you really want you can label them masculinity and then you'd be right but personally I struggle to draw the connection and find the idea of tying the word toxic to a gender dangerous. Nothing wrong with being masculine. Nothing wrong with being feminine. Nothing wrong with being overly either whichever your gender.

People who want to label me toxic for having a penis is going to struggle working with me, and it isn't my masculinity that's the problem.

(I'm aware you're just trying to explain here, not aiming any of this towards yourself)

> Which parts are those?

>> You could get bullied out of nowhere. What are you wearing? Did your mom pick that out? A buddy who worked for a team told me that Shaquille O'Neal had a tendency to get naked, tackle the team trainer and mock hump the poor guy.

>> Michael Jordan was a hypercompetitive alpha male asshole who viciously humiliated not just his opponents, but his teammates as well

From the article.

What's masculine about being a bully?
"What of those do you consider toxic?"

None of these traits are toxic in general, but due to group dynamics they often lead to toxic behavior. When guys want to show how masculine they are (and I think most are not conscious of this), they start doing stupid things. Bullying and disrespectful behavior, dangerous driving, not letting others contribute, not admitting errors, etc. That's why a culture that rewards "masculine" behavior is bad for collaboration.

90+% of rapes and almost as much a share of violent crime are committed by men ...

Seems like a good place to start your personal investigation to discover that which is toxic in masculinity.

I hate the term because it's misandry. We shouldn't tolerate misandry any more than we should tolerate misogyny. Both are toxic behaviors.