[kradeelav]

Not requiring a doctor's note for going to the restroom infrequently seems a bit more on the reasonable end.

I'd have more sympathy for Amazon if, say, she was AWOL from work for more than an hour a day with no explanation. Humans are not machines and deserve some flexibility with their time.

[bllguo]

to me 6 times during working hours is frequent by any measure, but that's hardly the important thing here. there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it

and the response seems eminently reasonable. getting a note in 2 months is just not a draconian requirement no matter how it is spun. i have to give benefit of the doubt and assume accommodations could have been made if one had been produced. I'm sorry but this is the reality if you work a menial job where you are easily replaced. I feel like people are just being blinded by seeing "Amazon" in the headline; the alternative is an unbelievable level of naivete

[LAC-Tech]

> to me 6 times during working hours is frequent by any measure, but that's hardly the important thing here.

I'm so glad I'm work from home so I don't have to debate with people if I go to the bathroom too often are not.

[bllguo]

to be clear it said "bowel issues" in the headline. having to urinate 6 times is not something i imagine anyone would care about. it's certainly not what i had in mind..

the other thing is that again, this has to do with the nature of the job. productivity in a warehouse is much more linearly related to time spent in the warehouse than productivity of knowledge workers is to time at the desk

[mypalmike]

Lucky us who don't have menial jobs that we get treated with respect and trust.

It's not because it's "Amazon". I have a friend who sorts mail in a USPS facility and it's the same deal - human dignity loses out to inflexible management every time.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

In theory you should be using the bathroom every 2 hours if you are drinking the right amount of water. That is 4 times in 8 hours, so 6 is not a lot

[prepend]

No, this is not correct. I drink a gallon of water each day and go 3-4 times.

Also, this isn’t for pee breaks as the employee referenced a bowel issue.

[mrmuagi]

I think it varies, yes. People have smaller bladders, some have larger. It also depends on how reactive you are to the sensation of a full bladder, and how risk averse you are to having it full -- perhaps you have had bladder issues, infections, etc. in the past and are mandating a self policy of frequent urination. But it's just a reference range, and if you ever took a blood test, you realize they might not matter some times.

I feel like bowel issues are worse though, since you delinated them. You never ate something that went down wrong? The worst experience I ever had was eating shrimp that caused food poisioning. I practically lived on the toilet, and I think my understanding of what IBS from having a family member who has is gives me a perspective that only offers sympathy rather than criticism unlike other posters. I don't blame people from being doubtful that perhaps the lady in questions self diagnosed as IBS and didn't get a doctors note because it was balogne, but the invasion of medical privacy and heavy handed get-the-note or be-fired dialoge tree the manager has seems fucking bonkers. I suspect it's just an excuse to fire a system designated target -- as amazon does and they just quipped up a reason to fire her.

[Kranar]

The person you're replying to did not make any leap or make any kind of universal judgement. On the contrary it was the person claiming that everyone should be using the bathroom every 2 hours who is making a universal claim. All OP did was point out a single counterexample and in doing so is implying that there is probably not one single universal rate that people should be going to the bathroom.

[mrmuagi]

Perhaps I really was the center of the universe in my mind. Thanks for clarifying, I've retracted my incorrect tone, cheers.

[nicoffeine]

> there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it

Are you okay with your employee or client installing screen tracking software on your computer so someone can decide appropriate thresholds for your work and bathroom habits?

> I'm sorry but this is the reality if you work a menial job where you are easily replaced.

Are we back to calling essential work “menial” already?

[bllguo]

i object to those methods but not the concept of appropriate thresholds

did i miss your memo? work can be both essential and menial, they are orthogonal dimensions to me. if a task does not require specialized skills i will call it menial.

[nicoffeine]

> i object to those methods but not the concept of appropriate thresholds

What's the difference? Why does Amazon have the right to direct observation of their work and bathroom breaks, but your employers/clients don't have the right to direct observation of your work and bathroom breaks?

> if a task does not require specialized skills i will call it menial.

"Specialized" in that context is meaningless. Skills are skills -- there is no job in any modern economy that doesn't require training, whether it's through education, provided by the employer, or picked up through practice doing the work. It would take you years to achieve the productivity of harvesting food[1] compared to those who are skilled at the job, and vice versa.

If you're in IT, the worker shortage that provides you with higher wages is not based on your merit, it's based on market conditions totally out of your control. There are people who have more education/experience, who have invested more time and effort in their field, earn less money, and yet make more substantial contributions to the economy than you do. So I don't think it's wise for anyone to start calling jobs "menial." It's a cultural practice designed to justify worker exploitation.

[1] https://youtu.be/OTCqyfJwkx0?t=422

[s5300]

Nah.

Having dealt with this before, getting an actual note explaining things from the doctor treating you, or any doctor you attempt to go to afterwards because the first is literally acting like you don't exist, can seriously take 3-6 months.

I can only say, feel lucky or something that you've never had to personally deal with this.

[bllguo]

well if this is the case then I will concede. I assumed getting a note is relatively trivial

but I certainly appreciate my good fortune in life to not have to work menial jobs