[f32jhnjk33jj]

Americans got it right. Germans are, on the other hand, happy to work for a penny as you can see from the numbers below:

Average salary in San-Francisco for developers: $175.036

Average salary in Germany for developers: 61.176 Euro

That's 2.5 times more than in Germany. Please also note that many products like gas, electricity, laptops, smartphones are cheaper in the US, despite much higher salaries.

[IdiocyInAction]

The average German developer works for some non-software low-margin company where he only has limited impact on the business and is treated like a cost center, while the average SF developer works on tech projects with huge margins where he can have a huge impact on the product and is a valued employee.

Because the overall market skews towards lower salaries, even multinationals and the few local tech companies that exist there can pay less in Berlin.

Pay is also generally higher in the US, though usually not to this extent.

[protastus]

Americans work much longer hours than Germans.

The business culture of the SF tech scene demands long hours and intensity that most Europeans cannot imagine, having not lived in the environment.

American wages come with sacrifice.

[RealityVoid]

Hah, that sounds like a lie you tell yourself. As if Germans are unable to work long hours and with intensity. But doing so will not increase the salary you get anyways. It _is_ dictated by the local market.

[IdiocyInAction]

Working hard like that isn't really rewarded working for software in Germany, which is why people don't do it as much. If you work hard as a lawyer in Germany, you might make partner or something, which is why lawyers are prepared to do a lot of hours. If you work hard in software, you just get more work.

And there are actually plenty of crappy jobs with overtime in Germany too. Lower pay does not always mean less expectations.

[pjmlp]

Anyone that wants to slave themselves in Germany is able to do so by going freelancing.

You can work as hard as you feel like, charging generous hourly rates.

Just don't be surprised when big corp decides to consolidate external contractors into more well known contracting companies, delivering from Eastern Europe or Asia.

[krapht]

Comparing just to SF is a bit misguided. By the same reasoning, what is your reaction if I told you the average software developer makes $120 in Zurich?

[f32jhnjk33jj]

Zurich is not Germany. It's Switzerland, a different country. And many Germans move to Switzerland, because salaries there are higher and taxes are ~2 times lower.

[nicbou]

And San Francisco is on a different continent

[IdiocyInAction]

Berlin, along with Munich, is probably the hotspot for tech in Germany, so I think the comparison is actually quite apt.

[pjmlp]

Well, I rather have my 30 day vacations, union, healthcare, when I leave the office I leave the office (will be available again on the following day), extra hours or weekends means actually being paid for them.

Money isn't everything in life, and depending on the case it doesn't even buy health.

[Nux]

San Francisco is in a bubble, the rest of USA is probably not the same. You can't have it all, Germany's better at other things.

[IdiocyInAction]

The country-wide median for SWEs in the US is about 110k$ AFAIK, the median household income in the US is 1.3 times that of Germany, which with an average German salary SWE salary of 46k€=53k$ (I know, should use the median here, but I couldn't find data on that) would predict an average US salary of 68k$.

US SWEs have it much better than Germans across the whole country, there's no need to deny that. Berlin is also a bit of a bubble.

[jjav]

> That's 2.5 times more than in Germany. Please also note that many products like gas, electricity, laptops, smartphones are cheaper in the US, despite much higher salaries.

From a quick search, electricity in Germany seems cheaper than in California.

And then there's vacations, work-life balance, health care, education.

Raw salary figures don't tell the story.

I'm paying close to $30K in health care costs, that's assuming nothing out of the ordinary. If something bad happens it can be in the millions, bankrupting entire life savings.

If I'm lucky I can squeeze in one week of vacation a year (that's what silicon valley "unlimited vacation" means). Meanwhile I have family in Austria taking 6-8 weeks of vacation every year.

[Gortal278]

I would find a better job, the market is red-hot.

[jjav]

The market is hot (in the US) measured by salaries, as noted upthread. It's easy to make tons of money.

But finding a place with European levels of vacation? Impossible. I'd give anything to work 25% of my hours for 25% of the pay, but such jobs don't exist.

And US healthcare problems of course can't be changed by changing jobs (I've had the exact same Blue Shield PPO plan across 7 employers in the previous decade+).

[bradleyjg]

Have you tried taking more vacation? Yes, it’s “not done” but have you tried?

[fasthandle]

Germany's a hard comparison, but anyway...

Fist, SF salaries are high as is cost of living. Perhaps compare to Dallas. Or even Toronto.

Then there's social insurance aka pension. A SE in the US I'd assume to have healthcare (caveat - as long as in employment). An in terms of private investment such as stocks, the German stock market is quite different from the US one in terms of composition (as companies raising funds tend to use different means) hence future asset-liability matching. And a fair bit harder to do your own company (and VC funding) in Germany due to 'esoteric' tax requirements for companies (including but not limited to needing to pay tax in advance).

[pmkiwi]

SF is located on fault, with mega wildfires and mega drought for decades to come... At least the photo of the empty reservoir will be taken with a cheap Chinese-made smartphone, good stuff!

Some peoples value other things than money so it is a bit silly to just talk about $$$. What about housing costs, commute, healthcare, quality of life, etc of the _general_ population (and not only developers)?

[lazyant]

Looking at salaries at other countries, looks like the outlier is the US, not Germany.