[ub99]

Sorry do you live in the US? Do you really think a vaccine mandate is possible here? People will literally fight that with assault rifles. This situation is already tearing our society apart, there is no way any large scale mandatory vaccination project would succeed.

[sjg007]

Vaccine mandates are constitutional in the USA. We just forget our history from time to time. People also misunderstand the meaning of freedom as well.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vaccine-mandates-...

[kcplate]

Doesn’t matter. The best way to guarantee that the final 28% probably won’t get vaccinated is to mandate it. The best way to get the final 28% vaccinated is to fully FDA approve it, get Fauci and Biden to ease up on the vax shaming and then simply expect that 10-15% still won’t do it. You write them off and let the chips fall.

It’s remarkable to me that our government hasn’t figured out that you don’t get people who are already distrustful of the government to magically become trustful of the government by doing the same shit over and over that caused the distrust.

[howinteresting]

That's fine, they should get shut out of public life then. That's what fully internalizing the externalities looks like.

[kcplate]

Ya know…I seem to recall a bunch of people once thought that same exact thing about some other people about 60+ years ago. They thought they were better than the others, that the others were inferior, dirty, diseased, and less intelligent. Those powerful folks did all they could to keep the others out of stores, restaurants, front seats of buses, off water fountains, etc. and just kind of hoped those folks they hated and didn’t want in their society would just go away too.

[howinteresting]

The difference is that discrimination based on race is unjust, while discrimination based on vaccination status is just. I'll let you work out why.

[mdp2021]

Have you worked out the formula to correctly balance personal and collective risk, computationally? I would not dismiss the matter as trivial - I see it more as Nobel prize worth.

[kcplate]

Yes, perhaps today. People who discriminate are always confident in the moral justifications behind their prejudices.

All I see is just another group of folk devils that people feel the need to create to separate out people they don’t like.

[sudosysgen]

It's pretty simple yeah, you start withdrawing funds and federal services from people that don't get vaccinated. If there's one thing you can get from US history it's that money rules, and this approach does work historically.

Now I don't know that they should be implemented, and there would be some unrest, but it would end up working.

[howinteresting]

Yes, I live in the US. The way I think vaccine mandates can be done here is for every workplace, business and school to require them. Hopefully the upcoming approval of the Pfizer vaccine should unblock more of this.

[ub99]

OK, let’s explore that.

At what level do you think this would be enforced? Federal? Completely unenforceable unless you want to involve the military domestically. State level? Obviously half of the States are not going to do that. City level? Again, completely pointless.

Also, many business owners are antivaxx, why would they participate in this?

[howinteresting]

Federal funds should be withheld from states and cities until they impose mandates (this is the traditional way the feds have exercised control over states and cities). Businesses which refuse to implement them should have their lines of credit frozen or their permits revoked. Owning a business open to the public is a privilege, not a right.

There needs to be an all-out effort. The US did far more during WW2.

[ub99]

So, for example, all federal funds should be withheld from Florida until they introduce and enforce statewide vaccination? And we are going to do that with booster shots as well?

This sounds like tyranny to me.

[howinteresting]

Yes. all federal funds should be withheld from Florida until they introduce and enforce a vaccine mandate.

To the extent that this is tyranny, so be it. As I said, the US did far more during WW2.