[DrNosferatu]

"Incapable of integrating"??? The biggest constant here is the attitude to Difference in German Society. A fellow engineer, of Arabic (Tunisian) origin but raised in Germany, told me that when she was little girl, she was a very good student - including in German language - and on the occasion of her test being the best of her class, an angry colleague said: "they shouldn't have given you a better grade: you're not German!". Having lived in Germany for 8 years, I got stories like this from immigrants raised in Germany, all the time. At some point I started to consciously choose my words to make sure there wasn't any bias when I heard the telling of this kind of story when I asked something of the sort: "how was it to grow up in Germany?".

[DrNosferatu]

I mean "attitude to Difference in German Society" in contrast to other European countries. It really stands out in the south of Germany.

[southerntofu]

The same is true in every imperialist culture, like France, UK, Russia, China, India... The claim to be superior to others is a huge problem.

[Zababa]

That is true of every culture, period. In France, white people that comes from metropolitan France get discriminated against by black people living in Martinique, La Réunion, etc, because white people are the minority here. It is human to think that our in group is superior.

[southerntofu]

> That is true of every culture (...) It is human to think that our in group is superior

I don't think this is true. There's nothing inherently natural about this. One could even argue that cooperation, not competition, is what brought us this far. Of course i'm all ears for counter-arguments but usually this stance is just misinformed "common knowledge" among people coming from imperialist cultures who tend to see the rest of the world in the same way.

> white people (...) get discriminated against by black people living in Martinique, La Réunion

That's not exactly comparable. There's a deep history of colonization, massacres and exploitation which leads to resentment (which is not the same as racism in my view, and is definitely not the same as a superiority complex). If you think that's over, just look at who owns land and industry on those islands you'll see it's all white people most of whom inherited their wealth from pillaging the local population.

[Zababa]

> I don't think this is true. There's nothing inherently natural about this. One could even argue that cooperation, not competition, is what brought us this far.

Cooperation with the in-group, sure. Outside of that, most humans will at some point compete with the out-group for resources. That's thus far the history of humanity, for the vast majority of people that lived.

> That's not exactly comparable. There's a deep history of colonization, massacres and exploitation which leads to resentment (which is not the same as racism in my view, and is definitely not the same as a superiority complex).

Most of the people currently here have nothing to do with that history though.

> If you think that's over, just look at who owns land and industry on those islands you'll see it's all white people most of whom inherited their wealth from pillaging the local population.

Sure, they may be white but they're mostly filthy rich. Changing a class struggle in a race struggle is divide to reign 101, and it seems to be working.

[southerntofu]

> Outside of that, most humans will at some point compete with the out-group for resources.

Source?

> for the vast majority of people that lived

That's the history of civilizations maybe, but not every group/culture turns into an imperialist civilization. See also anticiv critiques.

> Most of the people currently here have nothing to do with that history though.

I would argue otherwise. They are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors, but everyone has a possibility and responsibility to correct unfair situations.

> Sure, they may be white but they're mostly filthy rich. Changing a class struggle in a race struggle is divide to reign 101

These are two different aspects of the same situation. How some nations and people became filthy rich is historically tied to a history of hierarchy of races and cultures, and this cannot be ignored. Studying class/race without the other is doomed to failure.

Race reductionism is just as dangerous as class reductionism. It's often brought up in leftist circles that bringing up racism in political analysis is "dividing left-unity". However, historically (at least here in France), immigrants had to form their own unions (Main d'Oeuvre Immigrée, Mouvement des Travailleurs Arabes) because they were discriminated in the mainstream anticapitalist movement. Now we're facing a second trend of economically-privileged liberals over-emphasizing racial issues while downplaying class struggles, and that's equally misjudging.

See also intersectionality as a field of study in social sciences: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality