[jazzyjackson]

I’m interested in the thesis, because a lot of Buddhist intro texts I’ve got into warn about going down the rabbit hole alone and without instruction. Meditation practice (or certain plant medicines) can put you in a state of feeling you are one with god, but this can manifest as “I’m the one who is god” otherwise known as a psychotic break (mentioned in Ram Dass’s Be Here Now)[0]

But this study is something Paula Poundstone would have a field day with. Here’s my interpretation: students who were given the breath-focus-training felt like they got something done for the day and students who weren’t given anything to do didn’t want the day to go to waste so they figured why not, I’ll stuff some ads in envelopes.

Are these studies even meant to be published and taken seriously by the press? Sometimes I think these weak studies are just student projects going through the motions of how you might design an experiment.

[0] https://wikischool.org/_media/be_here_now.pdf

Edit: page 196 of the pdf, page 97 of the book is the dazzling art of the realized being dashing past the pews of a church shouting “listen to those words you’re singing! It’s all true!” - messianic complex

[noduerme]

Buddhist societies are not exceptionally just, despite thousands of years of attempting to achieve balance, and not least because there's a hierarchy that naturally develops among practitioners, and many injustices in daily life are written off as a result of dharma. Buddhism just abstracts reality into something slightly more palatable that doesn't require as much action on your part. Tip that into westernized self-help 'mindfulness' and you have a perfect antidote to the nagging guilt of self-reflection and responsibility for the state of affairs in the world.

[brigandish]

> are written off as a result of dharma

Dhamma is generally understood as teaching or nature. Kamma, (often mixed up with karma, a Hindu notion that is close in some aspects, but really not the same) is, in simple terms, cause and effect with respect to an individual. All injustices are a result of cause and effect (at least, I hope you think so) but where I will agree is that it shouldn't be the basis for doing nothing - unless doing nothing is the best choice, and knowing that is the trick, isn't it, Buddhist insight or not.

> Buddhism just abstracts reality into something slightly more palatable that doesn't require as much action on your part.

I can't say that's a good summation of what Buddhism is or does, it might be best to get the basics right (the terms above are a good indication) and then move on to telling others what you think a system is for, or its impact on society… I don't remember Buddha promising a societal utopia but perhaps my memory is deceiving me.

[cjg]

Minor nitpick - kamma and karma are the same thing, but different languages. Kamma is Pali and karma is Sanskrit.

To be even more detailed, karma is the action rather than the effect, which is called karma vipaka. The English word karma means something more fluid - depending on context.

[brigandish]

Thanks, I do know but in general English speakers use the word karma and then ascribe the Hindu reading to Buddhism, so I was answering that.

As to the cause and effect part, again, I wasn't about to start on a "there are no causes and no effects, only conditions…" path as it would only muddy the water for the person I'm responding to, but I don't mind the nitpicking, it's a good point and glad to see reasonable challenges in the comments.

Edit, I didn't mean to put this all on the English!

[ttonkytonk]

Injustice seems like something relative to particular frames of reference.

I've noticed when I know the reason for something my anger subsides.

I'm not necessarily arguing that judgements aren't valid, just that they depend on particular frames of reference.

[jazzyjackson]

Karma is a hell of a justification ;)

My impression is that Buddhism, like all faiths, has that surface level of justifying why there is evil and how to get free of it - so there’s that inner peace [0] - but there’s also this call to action, to reduce suffering, to work on peace outside yourself - that’s compassion, and Jesus and Buddha were all about it, even if their followers sometimes lose the plot. (I’m too ignorant to speak of Muhammad).

As far as the corruption of religion into preserving social hierarchies goes, I like to think that the capacity to be co-opted by a state is a feature, not a bug: a viral transmission vector. These holy texts might not have survived without a corrupt state maintaining it.

[0] Nellie McKay has a song by this name on her album “get away from me”, it’s a fantastic critique of this focus on “inner peace”

[noduerme]

I'm highly skeptical of people who claim to have found salvation in Jesus, and righted all their former wrongs. I never know if they're telling themselves that, or just trying to convince me it's true. But I've lived in Buddhist countries and watched the same pattern of individual behavior juxtaposed with belief. And you're right, they both rendered unto Caesar and probably survived and propagated as a result. And to be clear, neither one is malicious or bad in its basic construction - telling people to be mindful or live according to ethical ideas. What does suck though is that both of them try to pretend that ethics spring from their written dogma, rather than teach people that ethical behavior is a rational and completely natural response. And by making it part of dogma they rob people of credit for having ethical impulses. So you want to help the poor - you're being "Christian" as opposed to being a rebel, or a good person. They deprive the individual of authentic agency in this regard. And an individual deprived of that agency passes down the dogma; and after generations it loses meaning.

[mekoka]

Buddhism, like any philosophy, is meant to be studied. I wouldn't assign to it what belongs to (mis)interpretation of its teachings. Even within Buddhist societies it's understood differently by different people, with many (most?) choosing not to practice any form of mindfulness, but rather preferring to worship. It doesn't matter that the superstition is discouraged, it's more easily accessible: status and amulets, offerings, people receiving blessings while on a submissive posture, women not allowed in certain areas, etc. And probably due to its nature, the philosophy meets the practitioner where the latter feels comfortable.

[Bellamy]

I respect Ram Dass and I have taken LSD a couple of times. Everytime I see Be Here Now referred or I open the book I always laugh and think about how much LSD that guy took while writing the book.

[jazzyjackson]

lol it’s a miracle that he held it together long enough to put it in English, I’ve met a few acid heads that have seen the other side and lost touch with what other people will understand. Ram Dass I guess was wise to give so many lectures, that’s a lot of good feedback for whether your ideas are gobbledegook

Another prophet that I think is talented at articulating truth is Duncan Trussel - the boy has been to hell and heaven and back again and just loves talking about it. His show on Netflix is called “midnight gospel”, I think any ram dass fan would enjoy it and the psychedelic/religious art style

[ttonkytonk]

There's also the page with the smug looking hippy, saying something like, "wow, me Sam Jones with the angels..."