[nzeribe]

"Consumer choice" is not how you stop hostile all-pervasive monopoly machine learning algorithms. The number of times I've heard from smart people: "Don't use Google"; "Don't use Amazon"; "Microsoft are evil" (true) - now "Don't buy it". Running into the hedgerows and away from the mainstream of digital life is not an option for all but a tiny fraction of people. "Just get an Android phone!" is an even worse idea.

[arsome]

I have to disagree - privacy requires openness. Indeed, "just get an Android phone" from Google, OnePlus and several other major manufacturers is a viable solution - they allow you full control over the device without their permission.

You don't want Google? No problem, blow the ROM away and install Lineage without GApps, you can even mess with MicroG if you're reliant on some app that needs Play Services.

[nzeribe]

Apple became the biggest corporation in the world because they worked out how to build humane interfaces into the technologies that shape the future. That you believe Grandma will be just fine nerding around with system internals, or will care what ROM is(!) shows just how far out of touch so many hackers really are. I'm sorry, but no: Android is not a solution.

[arsome]

Of course! I'm not suggesting it's a solution for everyone at all. Just realize that Grandma will never have privacy like that.

Corporations and governments combine to basically make privacy a niche thing for tinkerers only, you simply cannot mass-market the development attitudes nor technical and opsec skills needed to achieve a real degree of privacy on the user side.

[demosito666]

It's impossible to have privacy just for you in a society that otherwise doesn't have privacy. Think Facebook: even if you don't share much details, you friends certainly do. They will post your photos together and happily tag you on them, they will write how you hung out together, they will geo-tag your shared commutes, etc. Even if you don't share too many details with Apple/Google/Amazon/etc, your mobile carrier certainly does. Your Facebook/Twitter/TikTok does. Everyone around you does.

The solution to this problem does not lie in a technical plane, nor does it in digital escapism.

[aerique]

Haha, what an argument.

Grandma does just fine on Android and would be utterly confused by iOS.

It's all about what you're used to.

[heavyset_go]

UX discoverability on iOS is atrocious. You have to know what the special gestures are just switch and open apps, whereas Android has buttons.

[zepto]

In terms of avoiding CSAM detection they give you no more control than Apple. If you use Google’s Photo Library, your photos have already been scanned.

[dghlsakjg]

That's an option for the tech literate.

I want an option that is "grandma" compatible. In other words, it isn't really viable if you can't just buy it off the shelf, or have to dig into settings to opt out. Right now if I go to Best Buy (or insert your favorite retailer here), I can't buy hardware off the shelf that won't send my data to a remote server by default.

[NexRebular]

What if I don't want linux? Not many options available in modern phones...

[arsome]

Seems like a really... weird preference for a kernel on your phone.

A UI, sure, I could understand that, but a kernel?

[NexRebular]

Why would it be weird to prefer a BSD kernel rather than linux one?

I'm not too keen on contributing to linux monoculturization of IT anyway.

[causi]

Well, almost. Both of them have their "fuck the user" quirks. Oneplus spent a goodly amount of time exfiltrating private data to their own servers until they got caught and Google has a bad habit of disabling features like HDMI-out to force you to buy their other products like Chromecast.

[yepthatsreality]

You’re not running away from a mainstream digital life by buying a different computer, that’s just FUD. I’m nearly all Linux run and this has not decreased my ability to have a mainstream digital life…whatever those qualifications are, which seem to be specifically tied to software Apple allows you to use. These companies only want you to think life will be worse off by not buying their products.

[nzeribe]

Meanwhile in the real world, my brilliant friend, who cares about privacy, called me in a panic because she couldn't work out how to shift/right-click a video in her browser to download it to her hard drive, and you believe Linux is a viable alternative to the vast majority of ordinary people?

[yepthatsreality]

I never suggested that.

Shitty UI design is irrelevant of OS.