[saurik]

What I find strange about this is that, given how Netflix accounts are all attached to a billing instrument, and how it is generally at least "very annoying" to get a bank account in a different country, it seems like Netflix should not care at all about VPN usage: they "should" just use the country from the billing address on your credit card to decide what content you have access to... it not only seems like it would be a lot less work for Netflix, but would also be a much tougher region wall to bypass. (And like, I do see the commentary about using a UK card with the wrong IP, but that's a different backing argument involving credit card fraud and clearly something you are already past due to how you have a Netflix account somehow.) I can only imagine that the underlying contracts with the content providers are "written stupid" in some way (in ways that are needlessly difficult to enforce), limiting the location of the viewer instead of the origin of the viewer. (FWIW: I am now seeing 7ewis mentioned this same idea in a different thread.)

[rahimnathwani]

Imagine that:

- Netflix has a smaller/worse selection in the UK, than in the US, and

- Netflix charges more in the UK than in the US, and

- A UK person could easily get access to Netflix US by getting a friend in the US (or a US-based ebay seller) to set up their Netflix account

It would be nearly impossible for Netflix to comply with their agreements with content owners.

Limiting content based on billing address is easier to bypass than your post suggests.

[michaelmrose]

Getting access to a US citizens payment instrument would block 99.99% of such behavior.

[GekkePrutser]

It would be much easier to bypass by using the pirate bay though, in which case Netflix doesn't get any money at all.

I think this is why they're doing it this way, at least they get paid. For Netflix it doesn't really matter which region a subscriber uses as long as they pay.

I think they just act against VPN use because the content owners force them to. They love trying to enforce their old borders in a digital world that has none. Personally I think they should be happy that users are going out of their way to pay for the content given how many alternatives are available. They even pay more for the VPN itself.

Really, how many users will go like "Oh blast, my favourite show is not available in my region, guess I better wait until someone inks a deal and allows me to watch it"?

[xfer]

Why do the content owners restrict to particular country? It makes no sense to me. Do they lose money by doing this?

[Mindwipe]

They restrict to a particular country because it makes vastly, vastly more money.

Shows are worth disproportionately more in some territories, local broadcasters are also very good customers they want to keep happy and only license in areas covered by their transmission windows, basic things like the structure of the school holidays and weather make a tremendous difference when it's profitable to launch a show etc etc.

[RandallBrown]

If I have a friend in the US, it's easier for them to set me up a guest account than for me to figure out how to use the Pirate Bay. Plus there's almost no risk of legal problems from using a friends Netflix account.

[GekkePrutser]

For now, yes. But they are definitely on a campaign to reduce the family sharing between countries as well. Along with this VPN ban I think they are just forcing people to pirate.

Just refusing to take someone's money and expecting them to wait until you will is not realistic. Even people that have worries about torrents will have friends/colleagues/nephews that are happy to produce a USB stick upon request.

[michaelmrose]

There is no such thing as a Netflix guest account.

[RandallBrown]

Sorry, set them up as a separate user.

[shrewduser]

agreed.. i would think it would be much more effective than geoblock.

[krab]

> A UK person could easily get access to Netflix US by getting a friend in the US (or a US-based ebay seller) to set up their Netflix account

This can't be any random stranger if the UK person will be using the US person's means of payments. Therefore, not 100% but it could work in most cases.

[saurik]

Exactly... this simply isn't easy to pull off, and is certainly nowhere near as easy to pull off as changing your IP address, and is going to have way fewer false positives (in addition to fewer false negatives) than attempting to whack-a-mole VPNs over time with nothing more than limiting the number of Netflix accounts a person can pay for with a single credit card (such as to "1"). I'm literally mostly known for running a worldwide market with tens of millions of users--Cydia--and I'm telling you: it isn't some trivial restriction to bypass if you require someone's billing instrument to be located in a specific country (and the fact that such restrictions work so well is a big reason why blockchain has been so revolutionary to so many sectors... but isn't really going to affect Netflix's billing any time soon).

[rahimnathwani]

They'd have to also block BIN ranges often used for virtual cards (e.g. those used by Brex, Wise, privacy.com) and ranges commonly used for prepaid cards. Otherwise it's still easy to bypass.

One thing which supports your view: Spotify uses card billing address, and has large international pricing differences, but I don't hear much about people bypassing it by getting someone in the Philippines to pay for their account.

[nikau]

> They'd have to also block BIN ranges often used for virtual cards (e.g. those used by Brex, Wise, privacy.com) and ranges commonly used for prepaid cards. Otherwise it's still easy to bypass.

They sell netflix cards at supermarkets, so they would need to cease that also.

[kuschku]

Just have separate prepaid cards per country? You're already paying the price for that country's content selection, so Netflix should have no issue giving you access to that content either.

[rahimnathwani]

Yes, it can be any random stranger. Just because you have access to a Netflix account, that doesn't mean you get to see/use the payment card details for something else.

If you don't believe me, ask a Chinese friend to show you how easy it is to buy a Netflix account on Taobao.

[briandear]

> It would be nearly impossible for Netflix to comply with their agreements with content owners.

So perhaps Netflix should actually disrupt the industry by killing those stupid regional agreements that are a vestige from when film was distributed on reels.

Films are still sold that way, but if anyone could crack the country-specific market paradigm, surely Netflix could.

[hellotomyrars]

Netflix can’t even get parity for licensing on content they’ve helped produce/took over.

I stopped paying for Netflix for a lot of reasons, but the straw that broke the camels back for me was when I wanted to watch something with my Fiancé who lives in the UK and despite the series in question being branded a Netflix series, they didn’t have it on their service in the UK.

I don’t lay this all at Netflix’s feet. This stuff has always been fucked and Netflix has less leverage then ever since every other rights holders wants toss their hat into the ring and hope they reach at least a break even point while their competitors fail and then consolidation happens as the losers make deals with the winners.

I don’t mind paying for services but the incredible fragmentation of the market right now has pushed me back over the line where it is so much easier and more convenient with less bullshit (You still can’t get more than 720p unless you’re using Edge on PC) involved to torrent the limited selection of media I’m interested in again.

[lstamour]

Netflix branding is routinely applied to content that Netflix has licensed for distribution in only part of the world. Their FAQ[1] suggests this is because Netflix wasn’t available worldwide at the time, but I’ve seen some internationally-produced shows arrive on Netflix in the US as originals when they aren’t branded as such elsewhere.

1. https://help.netflix.com/en/node/4976

[Mindwipe]

"Netflix original" at this point literally just means "Netflix is showing this show for the first time in this particular territory." And nothing else.

[rossmohax]

With every studio opening their own streaming service, Netflix doesn't have much negotiation power anymore. That's probably the reason of this change, they are trying to sweeten the deal with publishers to keep inventory on the platoform.

[matheusmoreira]

We need to kill copyright itself. Once copying is no longer a crime, all these problems will solve themselves.

[not2b]

Contracts with the owners of the movies are a factor: Netflix might not have the right to show a given film in your country. Their contracts with the studios might require them to try to enforce this.

[saurik]

(You might consider re-reading my final sentence. The proximal cause isn't particularly interesting or surprising: the ultimate cause is the better mystery.)

[Hnrobert42]

What you are saying makes sense for legit viewers, but the goal of all this geofencing nonsense is ostensibly because content producers want to sue or press charges against pirates. They have to do that where the pirates are physically located, not where they got a credit card.

[saurik]

This is a shocking explanation, as it doesn't seem compatible with the oft-detailed explanation of these region locking mechanisms as being more about carving up contracts and extracting more value. As an example (from a year ago, before Paramount+, which has been confusing), you can watch Star Trek: Discovery in the United States... burn only on CBS All Access. Netflix managed to score the European rights to stream that, where CBS doesn't have a brand or any other particularly-interesting-to-that-audience content. Netflix thereby isn't allowed to show Star Trek: Discovery to people in the US, but I don't see how any explanation about that could be tied to pressing charges for piracy?

[Hnrobert42]

I’m totally talking out my ass, so don’t be too shocked. :-)

It could be that the decision about which service gets European access rights is made only after the decision about which content will even be allowed for broadcast in a region.

It could be that in these huge corporations, the business side of the company negotiates regional access rights. The totally separate legal department enforces the geofence, and they are driven more by their contact with content producers’ anti-piracy legal departments, squeaky wheel style.

Anyhow, like I said, just speculation.

[Mindwipe]

It is extremely easy to buy card numbers, and Netflix sell pre-paid cards in some territories which are even easier to buy.

But yes, location is the thing that matters in contracts, because that is actually much easier to demonstrate.