[mimixco]

I'm excited about the Steam Deck but hesitant about this Linux decision. Despite Gabe Newell's objections, Windows works quite well as a gaming UI. The Xbox runs Windows and all of Steam's games work on Windows, so calling it a "steaming pile" or whatever really isn't accurate. It's more like sour grapes.

Steam managed to create the Windows gaming environment out of whole cloth. Microsoft's attempt to control gaming for PCs failed horribly, leaving Steam the victor. But, by the same token, Steam has no console presence, which with subscription models like Xbox Game Pass, can be very profitable.

What kind of console can they do? Not a home one. It's almost over for those anyway. So, a portable. What OS can it run? Not Windows. Steam isn't going to write an Xbox-like UI for Windows that would look good on the Deck, something Microsoft addressed back in the days of Xbox One.

The Xbox UI (and its integration with the PC) have only gotten better since then. So much so that many games are now "play anywhere," meaning you can buy it on one device, play on another, and pickup and play later on a third via streaming. This is remarkable and fantastic!

Will Linux on the Steam Deck enable this kind of "play anywhere" model? Hmmm.... Maybe. It will be a hard road. The article mentions that the "top shooters" don't run on Linux. That's pretty bad. Those are the games that have heavy user bases and you need them onboard.

[dharmab]

> Steam managed to create the Windows gaming environment out of whole cloth.

As someone who has been using Steam since the early days, this feels incredibly anachronistic. Steam pioneered digital distribution but Windows as a gaming OS was already well established at that point.

[mimixco]

Yes, that's what I meant. Surely home computers have been gaming machines since before Windows and that was also a heavy use case for Windows early on.

What I mean was that Steam simplified the selling, installation, updating, forums, mods, everything else -- the store that Microsoft really wanted to have with Games for Windows that never took off.

[beezischillin]

They did say you can run Windows on it if you want to. And Steam Big Picture will work as an Xbox-like UI if you want one.

[mimixco]

I know. But that's not a smoothly-integrated user experience and navigating the rest of Windows on that machine without a mouse and keyboard is going to be a pain.

Steam didn't build a console UI that works from the boot state, like MS did for the Xbox version of Windows. If it were up to me, I think I would have picked that approach rather than adding an emulation layer (Proton/WINE) in-between.

[beezischillin]

I don't necessarily know how you could write a smoothly-integrated shell for Windows the same way you can for your own Linux distro and not be constantly occupied with catching up and fixing your stuff from the potential changes from Microsoft just to make all the settings and toggles work properly to change things in the underlying Windows OS and then still potentially get issues from the Windows Update process that's out of your control. Going with Linux, in my opinion, solves having to rely on a platform that is potentially a competitor and therefore could turn hostile if they choose to. Microsoft has the advantage that it controls the whole software stack for the Xbox. It's also a giant uphill battle, but one that potentially benefits everyone due to the open source software behind it.

I'm personally also really happy that this gives incentive for AMD to improve their hardware support on Linux.

[mimixco]

For sure! Being tied to MS is probably why they didn't do it. I seem to remember that's why Newell made Steam in the first place, so he wasn't tied to MS.

[hypertele-Xii]

> without a mouse and keyboard

The track pad works surprisingly well as a mouse in this configuration. I used the Steam Controller as a wireless couch mouse, solid.

The Deck has that, plus touchscreen keyboard. Not the best, wouldn't do programming like that, but good enough for configure typing.

[entropicdrifter]

You can set BPM to launch at boot just by going into Steam -> Settings -> Interface tab -> Enable “Run Steam when my computer starts” and “Start Steam in Big Picture Mode”

[beezischillin]

My current setup actually involves having a secondary account on my desktop just for gaming with BPM booting up on startup and my PC being set up to log into that desktop automatically, connected to the TV via HDMI. For anything else I've a Microsoft-connected account and a patch on Remote Desktop (which is probably the most impressive feature of Windows, to be honest, at least to me) to allow multiple sessions so I can log into it from my laptop at any time.

I also have two other Samsung TVs with their Tizen OS thingy that has Steam Remote on them so I can log in and play any game remotely from anywhere in the house if I want. It's pretty crazy and impressive, considering that as a kid, growing up it broke my heart that I can't even play the Rayman 2 demo I had because I couldn't afford a 3D accelerated GPU :)

[mimixco]

Right. I'm talking about the rest of the computer. How will you manage files on a Steam Deck? How will you access Windows Update? Is your "desktop" going to be covered in icons?

Using Windows on Steam Deck (not using Steam on Steam Deck, using the Windows OS) is going to be difficult because the device lacks a mouse and keyboard on which Windows is dependent. Fixing this for Xbox required making an entirely new UI (for the OS, updates, sign-ins, everything) which Steam has not done for the Deck.

[staticman2]

You'd probably dock the Steam Deck if you want to manage files. Though I imagine the touch screen would be usable for simple actions like rebooting to update windows. Putting windows into tablet mode and searching with the on screen keyboard may work better than attempting to click icons or use the desktop in handheld mode.

[mimixco]

Yes, all of these workarounds are examples of why it's not a workable solution. Can you imagine if a Nintendo Switch required that much falderal? It wouldn't sell.

The point I'm making is that normal folks will not dock it or goof around with touchscreen compromises in order to run Windows, which they will also have to install themselves! This is the opposite of a smooth, integrated, pick-up-and-play experience.

Since MS makes hardware now, what's to keep them from making a handheld that runs the Xbox version of Windows?

[jayd16]

It has a touchscreen which windows supports. Won't it feel like a surface in tablet mode?

[dtagames]

I think you'll be very hard pressed to use a tiny device without a mouse or keyboard effectively in Windows. Even Windows 11 contains numerous small and overlapping dialogs with all kinds of UI affordances. None of this is setup for touch. Yes, theoretically, you could get it to work, but it won't be fun. The pop-up keyboard, for example, will likely cover a big part of whatever dialog box you're typing into. Moving and managing windows with touch is also not fun at all.

Not coincidentally, this is the same reason that MacOS doesn't have touchscreens. Everything about that OS also requires a mouse (or touchpad) and a keyboard. Just adding a touchscreen to a Mac won't do it.

[beezischillin]

It'll probably be a bit awkward to use for anything other than gaming, maybe if anyone really wants media playback they can just duct tape Kodi to it, which you can do if you add it to Steam as an external app and have it appear in your list of software .

It seems to me that if anyone really wants to do power user stuff on it, they'll dock it and use a keyboard and a mouse anyway on a far larger screen.

[hypertele-Xii]

You're lecturing Valve about top shooters?

[mimixco]

Not lecturing anyone. Just citing from the article why that might be a stumbling block. I'm a happy Steam customer. No complaints from me and I have no dog in the fight. I hope Steam Deck is very successful.