[NovaX]

A language's core values is not determined by a small, vocal, subculture of its ecosystem. In Java's case, it was set early on to be a "blue collar" language [1]. If programmers fail to follow the spirit of the language then it will be awkward.

"So, how does Java feel? Java feels playful and flexible. You can build things with it that are themselves flexible. Java feels deterministic. You feel like it’s going to do what you ask it to do. It feels fairly nonthreatening in that you can just try something and you’ll quickly get an error message if it’s crazy. It feels pretty rich. We tried hard to have a fairly large class library straight out of the box. By and large, it feels like you can just sit down and write code."

Please do not push the programming community towards a tribal, us vs them, hostile environment where one belittles their neighbor. We can have interesting, fun, insightful technical debates! There's no reason to devolve into bigotry to "win" an argument, it's a lot more fun to learn from each other and do cool, new things.

[1] https://www.win.tue.nl/~evink/education/avp/pdf/feel-of-java...

[josephg]

I don’t see it as winning and losing. I see it as deciding where to stand and where to contribute in my technical life. How do you personally trade off velocity (code fast) vs correctness, completeness or performance? Javascript generally values velocity over generalisability. (“It’s better to implement something quickly and worry about adapting it to other problems later”) compared to most Java code. It’s not necessarily better and worse. It’s a question of fittedness with your own values and the values of your project.

If you consistently write code which fights the ecosystem your code is written inside of, it’s quite painful. Writing Lua without ever blocking is hard. Writing javascript with large, deep class hierarchies is awkward. I’ve seen people write pure functional Java, but if that’s what you’re into you should probably consider just using a different language.

And to name it, Java does not feel playful and flexible to me. Not compared to ruby, Haskell, python and javascript.

[voldacar]

> Java feels playful and flexible.

Insane that anyone could say this with a straight face