[throwavocado]

> On the whole, I'm not quite sure how the Apple plan will protect actual children from rape (except to somewhat reduce the secondary harm of distribution).

You bring up the distinction between "possession offenses" (i.e., a person who has CSAM content) and "hands-on offenses" (i.e., a person who abuses children and possibly, but not necessarily, produces CSAM). Detecting possession offenses (as Apple's sytem does) has the second-order effect of finding hands-on offenders because hands-on offenders tend to also collect CSAM and form large libraries of it. So finding a CSAM collection is the best way to find a hands-on offender and stop their abuse. Ideally, victims would always disclose their abuse so that the traditional investigatory process could handle it -- but child sexual abuse is special in that offenders are skilled in manipulating children and families in order to avoid detection.

I think that the case of USA v. Rosenchein [0] is a good example because it shows the ins and outs of how the company->NCMEC->law enforcement system tends to work and how it leads to hands-on offenders. It's higher profile than most, perhaps because the defendant (a surgeon), seems to have plenty of resources for fighting the conviction on constitutional grounds (as opposed to actually claiming innocence). But the mechanism leading to the prosecution is by no means exceptional.

Caveat: Not a lawyer.

[0] https://www.anylaw.com/case/usa-v-rosenchein/d-new-mexico/11...

[wegs]

No. This is not true, and I think I provided a good reference to that effect (it's really quite a good documentary too). A US surgeon engaging in child abuse is a statistical anomaly in the world of child sexual abuse. The best way to find child sexual abuse is to hop onto an airplane, and go to a region of the developing world where child sexual abuse is rampant.

It's not all hard to find such places. Many children are abused at scale, globally. I think few of those kids are getting filmed or turned in CSAM.

I'm also not at all sold on your claim that hands-on offenders tend to collect CSAM materials either, but we have no way to know.

I am sold on the best way of reducing actual abuse involves some combination of measures such as:

1) Fighting poverty; a huge amount of exploitation is for simple economic reasons; people need to eat

2) Providing social supports, where kids know what's not okay, and have trusted individuals they can report it to

3) Effective enforcement everywhere (not just rich countries)

4) Places for such kids to escape to, which are safe and decent. Kids won't report if the alternative is worse

... and so on. In other words, building out a basic social net for everyone.

[browningstreet]

We already live in a police state. The federal, state and local infrastructure and resources are mind bogglingly massive. They have laws granting them near carte blanche rights and actions.

We are citizens of our country and we deserve a dignified existence. We are supposed to have rights, and they're being worn away, formally and informally, by our governments and megacorps acting like NGOs.

I'm sympathetic to the overwhelming horrors of drunks, drunk driving, violent actors, child abuse, child porn, economic crimes, etc.

I've done my calculus, and I got my vaccine and I wear my mask in the current circumstances of our pandemic. But in a similar calculus, what Apple has planned to subject a huge portion of our population to, by din of their marketshare in mobile and messaging. I personally can't accept the forces at play in this Apple decision, and I'm continually baffled by those who think this is overblown.

[frickinLasers]

I'd like to subscribe to your blog.

So what's next? There might be some time left to secure our rights on Mars...

[jodrellblank]

Have you imagined what a near-future Mars colony will be like? You can't live on the surface, so it will be as high-tech and enclosed and cramped as a space station; an air-tight pressure vessel with no escape. It will have limited energy and resources so there will likely be rationing. It will be vulnerable to any pressure breach or loss of power, so can take no risks with mechanical failure, bad actors, disease spread, etc. so it will likely be sensored and surveilled all over. It will likely be funded in large part or entirely by private investors. Musk has estimated $500k for a ticket to go there and people have estimated $3Bn/year for 30 years to keep a base running with no economic return from that.

No government, no police, no Wild West "run them out of town" option. You think they're going to want to spend $500,000 return flight cost to send potential criminals away or just "let them be" in an environment like that?

The idea that you might be able to go there and "demand your freedom" without being a billionaire owner of the colony is ill-thought-out. Subjects will have no leverage and no options, and leaders will have billions sunk into it and demand obedience like a Navy Submarine.

[frickinLasers]

Yes, I've thought about it. I was kind of hoping for a better suggestion.

However, I'd rather voluntarily subject myself to a dictatorship like that than believe all my life I have rights that are sacred, only to look up and find myself in an authoritarian panopticon.

I do harbor fantasies of some day collaborating on a new system of government, or at least laying the groundwork. It's not going to be Musk's planet forever, and the first generation of Martians will be volunteers who want the project to succeed. Which makes it more like the 13 original colonies than the Wild West.