[zepto]

> Because once that functionality is there it affects everyone, not just in the US.

The functionality to detect CSAM uploaded to Apple’s servers or sent to pre-teens?

> And it basically means we sell out our democratic principles

What democratic principle is being sold out?

[hef19898]

The right to secret communication. The right of not being under surveillance. The government cannot open letters without a warrant, but somehow Apple, Google, MS and co can sniff through electronic communication as they see fit because of a clause in an EULA. No idea how came there, but maybe the days when Stasi surveillance was the poster child of government intrusion into private life are too long gone to be remembered. Or they aren't and certain people choose to make shit load of money from the thing.

[jdavis703]

> The government cannot open letters without a warrant, but somehow Apple, Google, MS and co can sniff through electronic communication

This is no different than a private doctor testing for illicit drugs and reporting results to the DEA (they literally do this for ADHD patients.)

[pseudalopex]

I know American ADHD patients. None of them take drug tests.

[jdavis703]

I’m an American ADHD patient. My doctor made me (and his other patients) come in on random weekends for drug tests. He said the DEA made him report his records.

[pseudalopex]

It's easy to find other people saying they don't have to take drug tests. It seems more likely your doctor is mistaken or lying than many other doctors just ignore a legal requirement.

[jdavis703]

I don’t know if it’s a legal requirement, I certainly couldn’t find any information on it. My assumption is some lawyer told him it’s a “best practice” to have this information on record in case the DEA audits him or something.

[amanaplanacanal]

Might as well make it legal for police to search our houses at will, as long as they are looking for child abuse images. Doesn’t sound much like the US any more at that point.

[zepto]

> Apple, … can sniff through electronic communication as they see fit

Except that they can’t and don’t.

[hef19898]

Google is checking, apparently, Gmail for cp. Apple is doing it, soon, on your phone. Checking your mail for analog cp requires a warrant and can only be done by police. See the difference?

[zepto]

> Apple is doing it, soon, on your phone.

Apple is only checking images you choose to upload to iCloud photos to see if you are uploading a collection of CSAM. This is entirely optional, and they have publicly explained what they are doing.

They are not sniffing through your communications as they see fit.

[hef19898]

One last try, after that I'll stop since you are all over these submissions defending Apple here.

Take traditional mail. That is not opened, it is, usually, not read. Nor is content checked. It can, and is, opened in case of warrants (let's ignore totalitarian regimes here). What Google is doing when it comes to photos, as was Apple before, is opening every envelope containing photos to check wether or not it was CP. Already bad enough because they still opened your mail. You could avoid that by just using another mail carrier, so.

What Apple is doing now is checking you photos before you put them in the envelope. In case they find too many stuff they don't like they open all your other photo albums. And they tell authorities. Without any means for you to prevent that. It's like the postal service looking at your mail before they pick it up.

All that without oversight by courts. Without proper legal and investigative proceedings. Heck, even without any law, currently, forcing them to do that.

The more recent incidents where that or similar things happened were:

- the USSR

- the DDR with the Stasi

- Nazi Germany

- Western allies during WW2 through dedicated censorship bureaus

All of those were historically deemed unacceptable, maybe necessary for the greater good so. Now a private entity, with a global reach, does the same thing in principle. Even with the technical capabilities to do it on a much larger scale, and more thoroughly. And because of Apple being private is, for some reason, ok for you.

Not sure if further discussion woth you has a point, I'll just leave it at that.

[zepto]

> One last try, after that I'll stop since you are all over these submissions defending Apple here.

Ad hominem is bad faith. It’s usually a sign that you know your arguments don’t hold up.

> What Apple is doing now is checking you photos before you put them in the envelope.

No, an ‘envelope’ is a totally misleading analogy. This has nothing to do with sending messages.

If you want an analogy try this one: Apple provides a warehouse for people who want to store copies of their precious photos. They give you a copier to make copies of your photos, you give them the copies, and they file them.

Because they don’t want a vault full of child porn, then equip the copier with a scanner to detect known child porn while it makes the copy.

That is all that is happening here. No sniffing through communications as they see fit, only a way to prevent you from uploading child porn to their service.

Anyone saying otherwise simply isn’t being truthful.

[lttlrck]

traditional mail is under federal jurisdiction from mailbox to mailbox. For obvious reasons. Storing files on a private company's servers is nothing like that whatsoever.