[nyx-aiur]

This is such a stupid fallacy and it comes up every time something like this is discussed. You don't know if anything is or will be abused you expect it because you expect your elected government to do so. The problem here is with you or your electors not with the technology itself. You want to fix the symptoms but not the problem. As usual.

[gambiting]

How so? The UK's snooper's charter that compels ISPs to save your entire browsing history for a year was only meant to be used to catch pedophiles and terrorists, and now 17 different agencies have been given completely warrantless access to the database, including the UK's Food Standards Agency(??!?!?!?). People have already been fired for abusing access too, so it definitely happens too.

>>The problem here is with you or your electors not with the technology itself

No offense, but this is such a shitty answer, and it's always made by apologists for these incredibly invasive technologies. Like, please explain to me, in simple terms, how can I, an immigrant who doesn't even have the ability to vote, vote to make an American corporation do nor not do something. I'm super curious.

[nyx-aiur]

It's the exact same shit I was talking about instead of fixing your governing body you want to fix it with technology. All the crypto apologist are the same way if the government YOU are electing does something stupid you want to fix the symptom and not the governing body. You are just throwing around goal posts instead of working on the real problem.

[nemothekid]

>government YOU are electing does something stupid

Is America the entire world to you? What should a Chinese citizen do? What should a Saudi citizen do? What should a Russian citizen do? Even if you ignore the fact that the chance of fascism in American is not zero, why should Apple make it easier for totalitarian regimes to spy on their citizens? Or do you expect a Saudi person to "just move to America"?

[nyx-aiur]

I am talking to people on this website which is banned in 3 of the 4 countries you are talking about. Stop moving your shitty goalpost we are talking about the US, Europe and other democracies. You know what would help people in regimes? Governing bodies that stand up for them in other countries... guess who could change that.

[nemothekid]

I'm not moving the goalposts. I, one, have empathy for people other than myself and two, I am not deluded enough to think that fascism will never return to the West. If you don't care about citizens in other countries, that's on you.

>You know what would help people in regimes? Governing bodies that stand up for them in other countries... guess who could change that.

What would also help is if Apple didn't build tools for those regimes to suppress opposing political bodies.

[gambiting]

>>if the government YOU are electing

Except like I clearly said above, I'm an immigrant without the right to vote, so I'm not electing shit. Again, how exactly am I supposed to vote my way out of this?

[matheusmoreira]

Civil disobedience. If we think a law is unjust, it is our duty to disobey and undermine it. Technology is a tool that allows us to do exactly that.

[matheusmoreira]

> You don't know if anything is or will be abused

Actually I do. Governments abuse their powers all the time. They have done it before, are doing it right now and will continue to do it in the future. This is not fallacy, it is fact.

Here's an example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOVEINT

The only solution is to take their power away. No way to abuse power they don't have. We must make it technologically impossible for them to spy on us.

[nyx-aiur]

That's the exact same fallacy you are proposing to fix a symptom and not the problem. You want to reign in the government YOU ARE ELECTING TO GOVERN you with technology instead of real political work. Either vote different or get into politics and fix yourself.

Your wikipedia link doesn't show anything regarding abuse of the governing body ALL of the examples are from private persons.

[gambiting]

>>Your wikipedia link doesn't show anything regarding abuse of the governing body ALL of the examples are from private persons.

Have you even like....read the page they linked?

"Siobhan Gorman (2013-08-23). "NSA Officers Spy on Love Interests". Washington Wire. The Wallstreet Journal. "

Are NSA Officers "private persons" now? They are government employees, they were abusing the power they were given while employed by the government. It doesn't matter in the slightest if they were abusing the power for private or state gain, it's a state agency and its employees abusing the access, that implicitly makes it the state abusing the power they have.

[nyx-aiur]

Wow if you can't distinguish between rogue agents and an institutional abuse of power there is nothing left to argue.

[gambiting]

If you really think that an NSA employee abusing their access is just a "private person" then yeah, I guess there is nothing left to argue. I guess it must be nice sleeping well at night not worrying about this stuff, right?

[matheusmoreira]

I didn't elect anyone. There is not a single politician in power right now that represents me. I'm not even american to begin with so it's not like I have any influence over american administration.

In any case, there's no reason why politics and democracy ought to be the only way to bring about change. We have a far more powerful tool: technology.

Governments make their laws. People make technology that neutralizes their laws. They make new laws. People make new technology. And so on. With every iteration, the government must become ever more tyrannical in order to maintain the same level of control over the population it previously enjoyed. If this loop continues long enough, we'll either end up with an uncontrollable population or with an oppressive totalitarian state. Hopefully limits will be found along the way.

> Your wikipedia link doesn't show anything regarding abuse of the governing body ALL of the examples are from private persons.

A government employee abused his access to the USA's warrantless surveillance apparatus in order to spy on his loved ones. If this isn't abuse of power, I don't know what is.

Honestly, it's just human nature. No person should ever be given such powers to begin with. I wouldn't trust myself with such power. It should be impossible to spy on everyone.

[raxxorrax]

Any modern state implements separation of powers, trias politica in most cases. Your argument ignores that. You also haven't made clear what fallacy you mean.

Want to fix child abuse? Fund teachers and child care. Apple cannot help those kids and I don't mean that as an indignation towards the company.

[srmarm]

The thing is tools like this will only make it harder to fix the problem.

[IntrepidWorm]

It's not just idle speculation- history speaks for itself.