Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by Joker_vD 1773 days ago
But the actual solutions were the shock troops, you know? The tanks and the anti-tank defence kinda reached parity by the middle of the WW2, so tanks became rather ineffective at breaking through the field defences. Solution? Specifically trained infantry groups that would infiltrate and destroy the fortifications, Germans used it since the early WW2. And here's a particularly interesting document from the Soviet side (dated 1944! so it's about time of finishing the liberation of their territory) at https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BC... , here's a google-translated version:

    An instruction to the units of the 3rd Guards Rifle Volnovakhskaya Red Banner Division No. 0590 / op in addition to the previously given instructions on the preparation of assault groups (November 1, 1944).
    To the regiment commanders of the 3rd Guards Rifle Volnovakh Red Banner Division

    In addition to the previously given instructions for the preparation of assault groups, the divisional commander ORDERED:

    1. In each rifle battalion, create an assault group consisting of: a rifle company, a reconnaissance squad, a sapper squad, a chemists squad, a platoon of 45-mm guns, two heavy machine guns.

    2. For the convenience of the actions of the assault groups, divide them during the performance of combat missions into the following subgroups: barriers, blocking, cover and capture.
    Allocate sappers into the barriers subgroup, three - five submachine gunners; provide the subgroup with crampons with ropes, probes, scissors for cutting wire, whistles, small axes, small infantry shovels, extended explosive charges of three kilograms each, pointers to indicate passages.
    In the blocking subgroup, assign 3-4 sappers with universal charges, anti-tank mines or anti-tank grenades to blow up a structure or to throw grenades through an embrasure, before a platoon of shooters to deliver anti-tank mines, explosives and bottles with a combustible mixture, 2-3 chemists.
    In the cover subgroup, allocate the heavy fire weapons attached to the assault group (anti-tank rifles, 45-mm guns, heavy machine guns).
    Provide the cover subgroup with whistles, rocket launchers.
    In the capture subgroup, assign a platoon of riflemen, a reconnaissance squad, 2-3 chemists, 2-3 sappers.
    Arm the capture subgroup with grenades, knives, termite balls, bottles with a combustible mixture, smoke hand grenades.

    3. The unit commanders should conduct training sessions with the assault groups for at least 4 hours every day, during which to work out the issues of the assault group's offensive, attacks by enemy bunkers, bunkers, methods of destroying bunkers, bunkers.

    4. The composition of the assault groups should be submitted to the division headquarters by 10.00 2.11.44.

            Chief of Staff of the Division (signature) No. 0590 / op 1.11.44 
Tanks are not enough, not by a long shot, and Germans knew it by the end of the WW1. Soviets learned it by the middle of WW2.
2 comments

Given the Ludendorff offensive failed I don't think you can call stormtroopers alone a solution. High casualties, outrunning supply and obtaining territory that is hard to defend which weakens your overall position.

I don't agree that tanks had reached some ineffective impasse. Quoting wikipedia:

> By 1918, tank capabilities and tactics improved, their numbers increased and, combined with French tanks, finally helped break the stalemate. During the last 100 days of the war, Allied forces harried the Germans back using infantry supported by tanks and by close air support. By the war's end, tanks become a significant element of warfare; the proposed British Plan 1919 would have employed tanks as a primary factor in military strategy. However, the impact of tanks in World War I was less than it could have been, due to their late introduction and the inherent issues that plague implementing revolutionary technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_warfare

Plan 1919 was going to use 30,000 new faster tanks.

You're kind of talking past each other :-)

He's saying that tanks became less effective during WW2, at first offense was overpowering defense thanks to tanks, airplanes and improved logistics. During WW2 defense started getting closer to offense, at least on land (air power improved greatly and it was the thing which facilitated all major offensives).

For example during the Battle of Kursk German tanks couldn't break through the Soviet defense because they didn't have air superiority. The Soviets (and almost everyone else) had learned by that point how to organize an effective anti-tank defense.

The Soviets also had more tanks, though.
They had a much higher ratio during Barbarossa ;-)
The Kaiser Schlacht succeeded in braking through. By doing so it also succeeded in out running logistics, moving troops from the highly sophisticated and fortified Hindenburg line and extending the front line by a lot. I would call it tactically successful, strategically stupid. But by then Germany had already lost, so the overall impact on the course of the war was rather limited if you ask me.
A lesson the Turkish army learned the hard way by losing a couple of Leopard 2s.