[bdjddd77]

It's fucking nuts, 40, looking 50, got IDs buying a pack of beers in Walgreens I think, just stopping two night usa back to Europe. She wasn't happy that she couldn't scan the EU driving license but eventually she relented, same next night, I was perplexed, do they not enpower their workers? Uk is over 18, but ask for id if you have any doubt less than 21, 3yr margin, common sense

[handrous]

> do they not enpower their workers?

The US is pathologically concerned with blame, and with avoiding blame. Everything about the US makes a ton more sense if you understand that.

If you don't empower workers, then anything they do is their fault. If you do, then anything they do might be your fault, for failing to restrict them ahead of time. It's as simple as that.

So you let them make as few choices as possible (then, if they do and it's bad, you're off the hook).

[monocasa]

> I was perplexed, do they not enpower their workers?

No, big chains like that in the US don't even empower middle management.

[patmcc]

>>>Uk is over 18, but ask for id if you have any doubt less than 21, 3yr margin, common sense

People are much worse at estimating ages then they think. If the policy is "ID anyone that looks <21" many 16/17 year olds will look 23 and not get asked. I worked for a chain of liquor stores that had an "ID 25 and under" policy - and to check it, they would send in 25 year olds. Lots of time staff would fail those checks. In my jurisdiction the penalties for selling to minors are strong enough that I'd consider a blanket "ID everyone" policy, or at least "ID everyone <40" or similar.

[throwaway672000]

>to check it, they would send in 25 year olds

Well, not sure if typo, but the margin of error is the point surely? It's fine that 23 year olds who look 26 slip through as long as 17 year olds who look 23 don't. Otherwise the store is effectively saying "we expect your judgement to be up to 7 years too high and account for that" but also "you're in trouble if your judgement is 1 year too high"

[patmcc]

Two things - first, no typo, but in my jurisdiction legal alcohol age is 19, so +6 years is the margin of error (at that particular set of stores, anyway). Second, it's more about changing how the question is framed in the mind of the clerk. Instead of "is this person definitely over 19?" it's "is this person definitely over 25?" - which has a much safer error rate if there's a big penalty for selling liquor to minors and a small penalty for asking for ID when you don't need to.

[corin_]

UK actually went from "Challenge 21" to "Challenge 25" a few years after the former was introduced, so most places have a policy of asking for ID if you look under 25 now - a 7 year margin.

Though the extent to which staff really do challenge anyone who looks under 25 obviously varies considerably, even in businesses where Challenge 25 is the official policy (which afaik is a recommendation that most chains, including pubs and supermarkets, and many small businesses follow, but not a legal requirement).

[gnopgnip]

In many states the cashier can face a $500-$1000 fine for selling to someone underage, risking being fired. The company pays a similar or larger fine. With a few of these fines that location can have alcohol sales suspended for 6-12 months. So many companies require ID for all sales regardless of age. Losing a few sales here and there from people without ID isn't worth risking it

[jdavis703]

I was in Virginia with a California drivers license and they wouldn’t let me use my California ID. Workers are paranoid about getting busted for selling booze to a minor. I guess no one ever gets fired for blocking an alcohol sale, but if they cause the store to loose their license they might be out of a job.

[kamarg]

No empowement. Mistakes could lead to too much bad PR, court cases, or fines. It also means that if anything bad happens, they can fire the employee that didn't follow corporate's rules and claim it was a mistake by the employee and totally not the company's fault.

[Talanes]

>3yr margin, common sense

I cannot guess ages with anywhere near that precision. In California the usual standard is if you look under 30.

[bdjddd77]

Fair enough, but I closer 50 than 30, and look so, and the same girl did the next thing the next night, it was a store near an out of town Airbnb so I doubt my first interaction was forgetton

[Talanes]

Could she have been under 21? I remember when I spent a summer working grocery that my under-21 coworkers were required to id on all alcohol purchases.