[NelsonMinar]

Let's see... the user could download an app, click it, and run Postgres. Or they could figure out how to install Docker, then run a terminal, then type two obscure and inscrutable commands into it. Perhaps administrator privileges are required along the way.

Sure, the Docker route is better in many ways. But perhaps you're not understanding the audience for a packaged Mac application.

[bdcravens]

I think it's a bad take to assume that everyone using a Mac needs a 1-2 click. If someone finds terminal commands "obscure", I'd hate to see what their SQL looks like, in which case maybe they shouldn't be running a database server.

For what it's worth, installing Docker on Mac (the audience we're talking about) is as easy as installing Postgres.app (download an installer and open). No administrator privileges necessary, unless you have a weird setup, in which case you'll run into the same issues running Postgres.app.

[scotu]

> If someone finds terminal commands "obscure", I'd hate to see what their SQL looks like, in which case maybe they shouldn't be running a database server

I think you are wrong. You are gatekeeping something extremely basic like a database from 1. beginners, 2. hobbyists, 3. even professionals that might have a different background than you (sql server on windows? Back when I used to write software for windows server, while using linux on my personal laptop, the command line was all but necessary), 4. my laptop died, I have to lead a dev workshop in 3 hours and I just got a new laptop but I don't have a full blown system that sets up my dev env because I literally have to do it once every 5+ years when I get a new computer, 5. more..

And I'm saying this as somebody who would probably go for the "command line" solution in most situations.

[systemvoltage]

As a software engineer with significant experience with Docker, I love the Postgres.app for local dev precisely because of 1-2 click. I also run Postgres in Docker when I need to isolate something but for most general purpose database work - I just use the Postgres app.

[crazygringo]

> I think it's a bad take to assume that everyone using a Mac needs a 1-2 click.

Huh? Nobody said everyone using a Mac needs it. Where did you get that from? You seem to be putting words into GP's mouth.

But some people certainly could prefer it, which is the whole point of it existing, for those people.

Also, your comparison isn't even close to equivalent. It's not the ease of installing Docker vs Postgres.app... it's the ease of installing Docker and then figuring out how to configure an instance with Postgres vs Postgres.app. Obviously Postgres.app is easier. Some people have no need or desire to figure out Docker, they just want to use tools installed locally.

[bdcravens]

Perhaps I worded it poorly, but I was addressing the idea "the audience for a packaged Mac application", which to me suggests a less technical user. Which is fine for non-dev tools, but I wouldn't consider a user needing a database to fall into that category. (though perhaps that's true of developers who don't write SQL, but only rely on an ORM)

> Obviously Postgres.app is easier

Not necessarily. I used Postgres.app prior to switching to Docker Compose. It's a great option if you work on one app, don't need to switch between multiple versions, and don't need to work with a lot of different extensions or configs. I personally prefer keeping all of my config in source code, in the context of my application.

[NelsonMinar]

I've come back to this comment like three times and can't hold my tongue any longer. How dare you say something like "maybe they shouldn't be running a database server". Particularly hilarious in the context of Apple and Macs which has literally built their entire history on making computing more accessible to people. I get it, you're a super ninja rockstar programmer who is comfortable with the command line and SQL and probably wishes he still had to toggle the boot loader into the console. Meanwhile there's lots of folks doing work who appreciate tools that make things more accessible. Including databases.

[bdcravens]

> super ninja rockstar programmer who is comfortable with the command line and SQL

These are junior level skills.

Read my comment not in isolation, but in context of your comment, particularly, "perhaps you're not understanding the audience for a packaged Mac application". I agree that audience exists, and the Mac makes computing easy for that audience. I just don't feel that audience would be running a database server. If there was a WYSIWYG that let people build React apps via dragging and dropping components and avoiding Javascript, the response would be the same (and completely appropriate).

[berkes]

As long as postgres is your only external service, this is fine.

But looking at my docker list of auxillary services for 8 projects, I see redis, postgis, postgres 10, postgres latest, memcached, mailcatcher (fake smtp), ldap, a custom oauth, kafka, MySQL, piwik(matomo), in various forms and configs.

Sure, abstraction layers and adapters keep many such dependencies out of the way in Dev and testruns. But the inevitable debugging and troubleshooting does require a quick way to run such a service.

[NelsonMinar]

Eight projects, wow, you are very impressive. Good job! Perhaps you are not the audience for "The easiest way to get started with PostgreSQL on the Mac".

[berkes]

I'm not probably.

But why the snarkily tone? It is really uncalled for.

[GordonS]

A bit OT, but what are you using for LDAP?

[berkes]

OpenLDAP: https://github.com/osixia/docker-openldap

[Macha]

I've used these type of apps which bundle a common infrastructure component and a management GUI on Windows before when starting out, back in the XAMPP / Apache2Triad days.

I found they'd cause more problems than they solved ultimately, as they didn't provide clear upgrade paths, often had opinionated default configs which left newbies wondering why public documentation didn't work, and there was a lot of churn as to which one were currently in vogue and maintained.