[elric]

Ah yes, the countryside. Not quite sure how we're going to be housing 7+billion in the countryside.

Doesn't seem like a practical solution. Not in the least because moving the countryside will increase car dependence and pollution. But I guess the view might be nicer in the short term.

I agree that air quality is probably neglected. Mechanical ventilation (with or without heat/enthalpy recovery) with filters seem like a net win in every dwelling. I haven't had to open a window since installing mine. Less pollen, way less mosquitos, and constant fresh air. A lot cheaper in the long term than those gimmicky devices which circulate indoor air and filter out a bit. If it's in your house, you've already inhaled it.

[dudeman13]

>Ah yes, the countryside. Not quite sure how we're going to be housing 7+billion in the countryside.

A short-term solution may be viable for the individual while not doing anything for society at large.

Mind you, the short-term solution still seems crap to me anyway since "lolz just move your life" is bollocks.

[corpMaverick]

Seems like on of those cases where "what is good for the individual is bad for the whole population if every body follows the advice" I remember seeing this when I took economics but I can't remember how it is called.

[sjwalter]

The universal principle of Kant's categorical imperative is likely this.

Something like, take actions that were the principles behind them applied to and adopted by all of society, that society would still be one you'd like to live in.

FWIW, I moved outta the city and bought a farm and it's been the best move of my life.

[p_j_w]

It sounds like you violated the very imperative you mentioned, though. If everyone did what you did, the world would be worse. This doesn't address the problem at hand.

[sjwalter]

I didn't say I agree with it. And I disagree the world would be worse.

The world would be much less filled with stress.

Everyone here seems so insanely focused on carbon emissions that anything rural is like verboten--THINK OF THE CAR DEPENDENCE!! lol

[p_j_w]

First off, there's not enough land for the world's population to live like that. If everyone tried to do that, there'd actually be more stress because people would be fighting over their precious extra acre.

>Everyone here seems so insanely focused on carbon emissions

Given climate change and what drives it, is it any wonder? Creating some disasters in the future so we can have less stress now isn't a very good tradeoff.

[verbify]

Tragedy of the commons

[chiefofgxbxl]

Sounds like a prisoner's dilemma, where from an individual perspective it makes sense to make a certain decision, but the same holds true from anyone else's perspective, and when everyone does it you end up in a worse-off situation than if everyone had cooperated.

[coldtea]

>Not in the least because moving the countryside will increase car dependence and pollution.

Not if you move AND stay in the countryside for the most part.

Countryside != suburbs, where you might come and go to some city everyday.

[wccrawford]

Having lived in the "countryside" most of my life, it would absolutely increase "car dependence" (and thus pollution) for people to move there. Public transportation simply isn't possible on those scales.

We had maybe a dozen neighbors within a mile of us. Town was 5 miles away. School was in town. We had a nursery next to us, but the next nearest job was in town.

Even if you restricted what you're saying to the actual towns, that town currently has 3000 people in it. It only had 1000 when I lived there.

I just checked, and they do apparently have "public transportation" there now. They recommend that you book it 3 days in advance to make sure there's availability. It's pretty clearly designed for people who can't otherwise get around, but does clearly state that it's available for everyone.

[coldtea]

>Having lived in the "countryside" most of my life, it would absolutely increase "car dependence" (and thus pollution) for people to move there. Public transportation simply isn't possible on those scales.

It's also not needed most of the time, and surely not everyday.

Plus, the US model of "countryside" life is not the same as in Europe or elsewhere: e.g. "We had maybe a dozen neighbors within a mile of us. Town was 5 miles away. School was in town. We had a nursery next to us, but the next nearest job was in town."

That's not countryside, that sounds like some a rural desert.

Countryside in most of Europe e.g. is networks of villages, that are more or less autonomous.

[pjc50]

> networks of villages, that are more or less autonomous.

Apart from the fact that most people there have to do a big shop once a week at the nearest supermarket, or that all the professionals commute out of the countryside to their urban workplaces?

Only the islands are properly autonomous, and even then that just increases the length of time between supermarket trips.

[coldtea]

>Apart from the fact that most people there have to do a big shop once a week at the nearest supermarket

The nearest supermarket is often directly in the village area. And if you not, it just takes 1-2 trips per month to go there.

And people live and work there, they don't commute to "urban workplaces". These are rural villages, not suburbs.

[p_j_w]

Do these "more or less autonomous" villages have electricity, internet, and running water?

[coldtea]

Yes, they have all three. They have pipes connecting them to the country-wide electrical and phone network, and the regional water system.

Autonomous as in "you don't need to visit some city to get all your basics nor you need a car to go miles away to some Walmart to shop", not as in "they make their own electricy locally".

[refurb]

Not sure how that impacts car usage?

[coldtea]

In that most of the month you just walk around your village, go to your shop, your field, the grocers, the super/mini/medium-market, to neighbors and friends, etc, and don't need a car.

You might use it a few times a month if you need something special, to visit another village or the nearest city, and that's it.

So like 1/20 to 1/50 the car use of the average suburban dweller.

[mariushn]

Mechanical ventilation (with or without heat/enthalpy recovery) with filters -- what should one look for when evaluating what to purchase? Do you recommend specific brands?

[throw0101a]

* Do try to get an HRV/ERV if you live in places where the outside air temperature gets >30C or <10C. Otherwise bring in fresh air will cause issues.

* Make sure your system can handle MERV16 filters: they catch more things, but may create more back pressure, so the system has to be designed to handle it. Further nice-to-have upgrades would be HEPA capabilities, and (if you live in wildfire zones) charcoal filters (for smoke/fire smells). You don't have to (always) use the finer filters, but having that option is useful.

* The filter should ideally be 4"/10cm, as they have more surface area, so reduce back pressure and often only have to be swapped every 6 months (sometimes even every 12). They do cost a bit more because of the extra material, but you get convenience. Don't go less that 2"/5cm though.

* The mentioned Zehnder is a good brand, but AFAICT, are higher end systems, and so may be a bit more pricey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrG7oG8Tvp8

https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/urban-rustic-in...

* Consider getting a separate whole house dehumidifier, depending on your climate: sometimes the indoor air temperature may be comfortable (20-25C), but if the relative humidity (RH) gets too hight (>60%) it will feel hot. But the AC won't run because its thermometer will say everything is fine. Temperature and moisture needs to be dealt with via separate mechanical systems.

[hollerith]

>Temperature and moisture needs to be dealt with via separate mechanical systems.

Are there dehumidifiers on the market that aren't air conditioners with a bucket under the condenser coils to collect the water? And if you have a whole-house version of one of those, do you need another whole-house air conditioner?

[throw0101a]

Yes, there are "portable" dehumidifiers:

* https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/appliances/g27192069/best-d...

It's a matter of volume: one of the portable ones could be useful in a small apartment/condo, or (if you close the door) a bedroom. But if you have something that is 1000 sq. ft. / 100 sq. m. or larger, you may need multiple portable units. It may be simpler to just install a fixed unit and patch it into your existing ducts.

There's also the fact that you have to empty the portables, so they may stop at 'random' times until you do so. Not sure about their efficiency, given that have space-volume and weight constraints compared to a fixed whole house unit. Plus you have the noise of the unit running in your living space, compared to having it in your mechanical area.

[hollerith]

I don't see how what you just wrote supports your assertion that "temperature and moisture needs to be dealt with via separate mechanical systems" or answers my question, "Are there dehumidifiers on the market that aren't [essentially just] air conditioners?" but you don't have to explain if you don't want to.

[throw0101a]

Sorry, misunderstood:

Yes, a dehumidifier does work on a similar principal as an air conditioner: there's a cold (metal) surface that causes condensation to remove moisture from air as it passes over.

An AC system would then take the heat that is also removed from the air and send it via a refrigerant loop to some place else (usually an outside device). A dehumidifier simply takes the extracted heat to another coil inside itself and reheats the air to (roughly) the same temperature.

The purpose of a furnace is to put heat into air, of AC to take heat out† (which just so happens to also change the RH), and that of a dehumidifier is to remove moistures while not altering temperature.

If your thermostat already reads (say) 25C, but your RH is 70% (e.g., due to a lot of cooking), then it's going to feel much higher than 25C. So do you crank the AC? You drop the temperature down to 20C, but the RH may still be 60%, and still feels too warm/muggy for you. Do you crank it to 18C? Running the AC, even though the thermostat says things are "fine", can use a lot of energy just so you can feel comfortable. There's a reason why the "humidex" / 'feels like' concept is often mentioned in weather reports: it has both psychological and physiological effects (wet-bulb 35C is a real thing).

Also note that, in winter, even if the temperature and humidity are okay, it may still feel too cold because of mean radiant temperature:

* https://www.energysolutionsnc.com/designing-spaces

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_radiant_temperature

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_comfort

MRT is why people feel a "draft" near windows. There is 'extra stuff' going on the walls and windows and thermal bridging. Do a search for ASHRAE 55 for various factors that go into making a comfortable (indoor) environment:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASHRAE_55

† AC was actually originally created for humidity control by Willis Carrier specifically for printing, to keep the ink and paper consistent and not runny. Cooling humans was only "discovered" as a use case later.

[mariushn]

Thanks!

[elric]

I opted for Zehnder using a DIY package. If you have basic DIY skills you can install it yourself in a couple of days. Comes with semi-flexible ducting, which is super easy to use. I have fresh air delivered to the living room & bedrooms, and extraction in the kitchen/bathroom/utility room. The unit does heat recovery in winter, which ought to save a bit on the heating bill. It's early days, so we'll see how that goes.

[mariushn]

Thanks!