[JoeAltmaier]

That's what cats do. That's how bird populations are kept in check.

A bird nest has what, 4 or 6 eggs? All those hatchlings are pretty much born to die in the first year. Because next year, the bird population is pretty much the same.

Cats can only catch birds when they are plentiful. When the population is back within bounds, cats find birds hard to find. Its a natural feedback cycle, been around for millions of years.

If the cats didn't do it, then most of those birds would starve the first winter. Is that more kind?

It's nice to feel positive thoughts about birds. But don't let that poison your feelings about cats, who are only doing their job.

[mykowebhn]

Without humans the number of cats in the wild would be vastly lower. Put another way, cat populations are at a level that would not be supported naturally without human intervention. As such, when we let our cats out an inordinate number of birds are "kept in check" as you put it.

This natural feedback cycle has been around for millions of years, just not the human element.

So to repeat: Please keep your cats inside!

[dspillett]

I'll take the RSPB's advice in the UK (there is little/no evidence cats are having a harmful effects on bird populations in the UK, tall buildings may have more effect, pollution definitely does, other forms of habitat destruction even moreso, etc.), though my current boss is happily an indoor cat.

In places where cats are essentially an invasive species, not native at all, this is different of course.

[JoeAltmaier]

Feral cats outnumber domestic ones 2:1. Do humans affect that? Feral cat populations grow to fill their niche, with or without humans. I don't see how domestic cats account for more than a small fraction of the issue.

And again, when bird populations reach equilibrium the cats can't find more. That's independent of cat populations.

[mykowebhn]

Feral cats are domesticated cats that have escaped and are no longer considered domesticated. The point is that if it weren't for humans we wouldn't have so many feral cats.

Also, feral cats tend to congregate close to human populations.

I'm not sure what your point is about equilibriums. Of course equilibria are reached naturally, but with the human factor these equilibria have been distorted beyond any natural capacity. In short, any human-impacted equilibria tends toward the rapid decrease in species populations, often to the point of species extinction.

[JoeAltmaier]

Not at all sure that's sound reasoning. What have humans to do with feral cat populations? Sure a few domesticated cats escape every year, but that just temporarily perturbs the feral population which is self-adjusting.

[mykowebhn]

Definition of feral (from google): (especially of an animal) in a wild state, especially after escape from captivity or domestication.

There may have been inter-breeding involved with wild populations, but most, if not all, feral cats have their origins in domesticated, or captive (by humans), cat populations.

Also, have you ever noticed that feral cats tend to congregate near humans? That's because they find it easier to find food from dumpsters, handouts, garbage, etc. This is very similar to other species that rely on humans for their success (rats, corn, cockroaches, crows). This artificially increases their numbers. I say "artificially" because their food source comes indirectly or directly from humans.

So simply from the definition of the word "feral", and not even including the inter-species dynamics between humans and feral cats, humans have everything to do with feral cat populations.

[lillecarl]

Probably refering to available resources for feral cats, it decreases with more domesticated cats out hunting.

[burnished]

The part you aren't mentioning is that in your model cat populations decrease when they cant find enough birds, which allows for the birds to repopulate, which allows for the cats to catch them and repopulate.

The feedback cycle is broken where the cats have ample food supplied and the cat population no longer depends on the prey population.

[bradknowles]

There are plenty of outdoor or indoor/outdoor cats that kill for reasons other than food. Some cats just have a strong sense of prey.

[burnished]

Yes, thats integral to the point I'm making. Cat populations aren't being modulated by prey specie availability but they are still killing. A healthy ecosystem maintains a balance between predator and prey because their population numbers depend on each other. But cat populations that are being maintained by humans don't have that feature, hence the outsized impact of their predation.

[throwaway123x2]

It's not just random birds it's random animals in ecosystems (esp in N America) not designed for predators like cats.

I strongly recommend this book for a deeper understanding: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CO34KU6/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... There are MANY species that have gone extinct or are approaching extinction because of cats.

[Workaccount2]

You're on the right track, but domestic cats are not native species in most places.

[JoeAltmaier]

Cats were on every continent thousands of years ago. How is that not 'native'?