[rickmb]

To be honest, these problems are probably more endemic in the Zend Framework world than most other frameworks, since ZF was specifically designed to be a toolbox, not an opinionated framework, and therefor doesn't come with a standard way of implementing models.

Personally I like this because it make ZF usable in a wide range of projects, but I've seen a lot of developers struggle with the concept of having to design the model themselves instead of filling in the blanks in the framework. Nine out of ten times they end up stuffing the business logic inside the controllers because "there's nowhere else to put it".

[vdm]

That's actually not a bad way of thinking about what frameworks are: a structure of places to put things.