[clukic]

Vaccine requirements have been in place for decades. For pre-K in NYC kids need shots for PCV and Hib.

For kindergarten they need more shots: Hep B, Polio, Chickenpox, and Measles, Mumps and Rubella.

Going to middle school? Then you'll need more shots, the TDAP and meningococcal conjugate.

These are all vaccine requirements. Is it an invasion or privacy to demand children's records? Is it the nanny state? We could go down that road, but who wants to live in a world where we lose herd immunity to all of those diseases because 30-40% of people choose to opt their children out?

[ashtonkem]

Honestly, I think a lot of people here without kids have absolutely no idea that you need to prove immunization in order to attend school.

What’s funnier still to me is men (it always seems to be men) outraged that they might need to prove vaccination in order to send their kids back to school, publicly admitting that they’ve been fobbing that work off on their spouse.

[bingohbangoh]

People know. They know, if anything, because you need to be vaccinated to attend colleges.

The issue is that this vaccine is not FDA approved. A vaccine that provides for only a year is hardly the same as a booster shot which is good for 10 iirc.

[karmelapple]

Reading this, I wondered what might be keeping it from being fully FDA approved. I found this article explains it well: https://www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2021/07/30/why-ha...

A few quotes I thought were noteworthy:

> For emergency authorization, the FDA required two months of safety data versus six months for full approval, he explains.

> Pfizer submitted its application on May 7 and was granted special priority review status on July 16. In a press release, the company said the decision whether to fully approve the vaccine should come by January 2022. Other reports suggest Pfizer’s approval will likely be sooner, possibly as early as the start of the school year.

> As you might expect, clinical trial data is scrutinized, but the process involves more than just experts reading data. The FDA also inspects manufacturing facilities and meets many times with company executives.

> "I think a lot of us are baffled why the FDA is taking so long.” - Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health

> To that end, the agency has reportedly expedited the process, even deprioritizing other projects in order to accelerate the timeline.

That last sentence struck me strangely, seeming to imply reprioritizing other projects was a big deal. We're still in a global pandemic, people are still dying here in the USA, and the economic realities still actively happening... yeah, I think deprioritizing other things is about the least surprising thing imaginable.

[ashtonkem]

It’s time to move these vaccines up into regular approval, for a variety of reasons. This is probably the most scrutinized vaccine ever, keeping it in emergency use is mistake.

> A vaccine that provides for only a year is hardly the same as a booster shot which is good for 10 iirc.

As compared to the flu shot? The one that I’ve been given for free in every school and workplace I’ve attended in the past twenty years?

Logistically, yearly shots are nbd. Maybe we should make flu shots mandatory for education just like the MMR shot, given the number of kids killed by the flu every year.

[chana_masala]

> This is probably the most scrutinized vaccine ever

Not in terms of long term data, at all

[ashtonkem]

What exactly are you expecting to happen, for the vaccine to turn around and kill 600,000 Americans?

[criticaltinker]

See these peer-reviewed papers for some insight into the second and third order evolutionary dynamics that we face with the current spike protein focused mRNA vaccines for SARS-CoV-2 [1][2].

These are serious long-term concerns, which may not manifest overnight, but they are certainly on the radar of many experts in the field.

[1] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/

[2] SARS-CoV-2 immune evasion by the B.1.427/B.1.429 variant of concern https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/06/30/scie...

[3] Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fj...

[TheAdamAndChe]

On websites where covid vax hesitancy is rampant, I often see posts discussing antibody mediated enhancement, vascular damage caused by circulating spike protein increasing vascular damage and causing death from heart attack and stroke in a few years, prion disease development from misfolded protein propagation, and fertility issues. For most of these issues, long term data is needed to rule them out.

[chana_masala]

Over a long period of time anything is possible.

[_ph_]

The vaccines have full approval here in the EU. Thats why we got the vaccines 2 months later than the US. It is also not clear, how long the vaccines protect. Some part of the immune response is considered to be quite long-term, only the antibody-count falls quicker. The thing is: we lack precise data here and we have an ongoing pandemic. Once the pandemic is over, it is much safer to explore how long we can set the interval for booster shots.

[MattGaiser]

Is it required or can you just sign a waiver and get out of it for religious/personal/health without a doctor reasons? Or is the documentation required easily forgeable?

[ashtonkem]

Depends on the state. My college’s policies were set by state law. A doctor has to sign a record for a religious exemption, which probably reduced the number of people taking it significantly.

Faking it never crossed my mind, because duh.

[moralestapia]

Your argument is fine in itself, the sexist remark is unnecessary.

[walterbell]

Early (i.e. existing) Covid vaccines are NON-STERILIZING, unlike almost every vaccine given to kids. There are sterilizing Covid vaccines in development, e,g. delivered nasally directly to the upper respiratory tract, but none have yet reached the market.

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243127

> To be sterilizing a vaccine must prevent infection. Since you never get infected you never replicate the virus and thus do not shed it. If you do not shed it the potential path of the viral life-cycle for that particular infection ends with you and thus you cannot pass on or cause a mutation. You are sterile against that disease; from the point of view of the virus you are a lifeless rock. Among commonly-used sterilizing vaccines are MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), Varicella (chicken pox), OPV (oral polio) and others. The only time that such a vaccine fails is when you do not build immunity (such as due to immune compromise.) This is extremely rare and the protection from such vaccines tends to be either decades-long or lifetime.

> A vaccine that is not sterilizing permits the virus to infect you and replicate and as a result you can infect others. Technically it is not a vaccine at all (which by definition prevents infection); it is a prophylactic therapy. Such a "vaccine" instead acts to reduce or eliminate symptomatic disease. You don't know you're sick and you don't get sick. You don't go to the hospital and you don't die. Unfortunately since you don't know you're sick but are infected and the virus is both replicating in you and shedding you are more-likely to spread the infection to others. All of the current Covid jabs are in this category and so is, for that matter IPV (injected polio vaccine -- the original Salk discovery.)

> During the original vaccine trials in the summer and fall of 2020 they deliberately did not test any of the recipients for asymptomatic infections. Only a person who developed a significant illness was tested. This has continued post roll-out with the CDC specifying that a close contact of a known case who was vaccinated did not need to quarantine or be tested until and unless they became symptomatic. They knew damn well, in other words, that the jabs were not sterilizing but did not want that data up for public debate because then those who have read history would be likely to make the connection to the present day and thus they did their level best to hide it. That has now blown up in their face with it being conclusively known that jabbed people in fact not only get infected but spread the virus to others.

> ... natural infection with Covid-19 is sterilizing. Being infected and recovering conserves the nasal and respiratory mucosal response which is where the virus enters the body.

[mapme]

I find it hard to believe they “didn’t want the public to know” when one of the earliest studies the CDC did on vaccines, with a March 2021 publish date, was a study that tested weekly regardless of symptoms to see if it prevented infection outright. Maybe not perfect sterilizing immunity but it does prevent asymptomatic.

I agree they didn’t get into the nuances of sterilizing vs. non sterilizing but for the general public that’s deep in the weeds, anyone who followed the details knew this was the case early on.

> “One of this study’s strengths is its design: participants self-collected nasal swabs each week for RT-PCR laboratory testing, regardless of whether they had developed symptoms of illness. Researchers were able to look for evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection irrespective of symptoms. A small number (10.7 percent) of infections in this study were asymptomatic (i.e., did not result in symptoms). However, the majority of infections (58 percent) occurred among people whose infections were identified by testing before they developed symptoms or knew they were infected. The study demonstrates that these two mRNA vaccines can reduce the risk of all SARS-CoV-2 infections, not just symptomatic infections.

This is important because preventing both asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic infections among health care workers and other essential workers through vaccination can help prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2 to those they care for or serve. Findings from this study complement earlier reports that these two mRNA COVID-19 vaccines can reduce both asymptomatic and symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections.“

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vacci...

[shinyamagami]

If the amount of taking vaccines, drugs, and paying medical services determine our good health, people in the US would be the healthiest ones, and they are not... Is it because they don't take many or much enough?

[99_00]

I'm not American, but from the American news I watch a significant % of the population doesn't have the ability to get government ID.

If they can't get that, how are they going to get vaccinated and maintain those records?

[pb7]

11% of Americans don't have government-issued ID. Not "don't have the ability" to get ID but don't have ID. They can get it with ease. Once we hit 89% vaccination rate then we can worry about that.

[99_00]

If that was true, why would voter ID be such a big issue that corporations are boycotting jurisdictions who enact it?

[atomicUpdate]

Virtue signaling. The same thing that drives most of Twitter.

[99_00]

But why is opposing basic election security a virtue?

[Zpalmtree]

Illegals tend to vote a specific way

[Overton-Window]

Blatant false equivalence. All of those are FDA approved.