[clukic]

The vulnerable populations aren't vaccinated. The vaccination rate in Brooklyn for people 65+ is just a bit over 50% (51% white/54% African American).

If cases keep rising I don't see any reason why hospitalizations and deaths won't follow. Unless the delta variant is less dangerous or treatments have improved tremendously.

So, the options are 1)Stop indoor dining 2)Accept the public health implications or 3) Require vaccinations for high risk activities. I feel like option 3 imposes the least harm.

[timr]

> The vulnerable populations aren't vaccinated. The vaccination rate in Brooklyn for people 65+ is just a bit over 50% (51% white/54% African American).

Yes, they are. In NYC, 73% of adults over 65 are fully vaccinated, and 77% have had at least one dose:

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.p...

You're cherry-picking regions of low vaccination, but ignoring the overall metrics.

[clukic]

It's the local demographics that matter. I live in Brooklyn. I don't care what the vaccination rate is in the entire US, or NY state, and I'm hardly ever in Manhattan. I don't dine indoors because the vaccination rate in my neighborhood is 39%. And, while I'm probably not going to the hospital knowing that I might put one of my unvaccinated neighbors in there matters to me.

[timr]

> It's the local demographics that matter

The local demographics don't matter unless there's a serious impact on the hospitals. That's why we started down this road, remember? It wasn't to eliminate death.

> I don't dine indoors because the vaccination rate in my neighborhood is 39%.

Are you vaccinated? If you are, you're worrying about something that is irrelevant to you. Avoiding restaurants because other people made a different choice is silly.

> And, while I'm probably not going to the hospital knowing that I might put one of my unvaccinated neighbors in there matters to me.

Ever had a head cold or the flu? You've put an elderly person at risk. Sorry, but it's true.

You can never eliminate this kind of risk. If your standard is "I must never present a risk to anyone else, ever" then you're going to have a really difficult life. You can live that way if you like, but don't force it on me.

[heavyset_go]

> If cases keep rising I don't see any reason why hospitalizations and deaths won't follow.

They already have. Hospitalization rates have multiplied by a factor of nearly 4x from the 12,000 COVID hospitalizations in early July to the 40,000 COVID hospitalizations today in early August.

[trident5000]

Or you know, let people decide if they want to take a risk. What do I care if someone doesnt want to get vaccinated and put themselves at risk? Thats on them. Just like they can go bungee jump or drive a race car.

[standardUser]

Primarily because of the threat to our healthcare system, but also because of those with high risk of breakthrough infection and those who cannot be vaccinated. I find it a little hard to believe that anyone who has lived through this pandemic does not understand this.

[ajsnigrutin]

Considering a lot of vaccinated people can spread the virus, the immunocomprimised are already fscked, and should stay at home.

For everyone else, there are vaccines, or if they want, they can risk it without. Give priority to vaccinated patients, and you're done.

[standardUser]

Vaccinated people do not spread the virus nearly as effectively as unvaccinated people.

And you did not address the threat to our hospital system, which has been the number one concern for a year and a half. Surgeries are already being halted in multiple states... again. You might view it differently if it was your hospital that postponed your surgery because unvaccinated people had filled all their beds because of a preventable illness.

[IG_Semmelweiss]

There was a study upthread (from the Lancet?) that literally pointed out that there are the same level of virus load on nasal pathways for vaxxed and unvaxxed. I believe the study was linked by user timr

This was the underlying logic for the cdc to require masks once again

[standardUser]

Yeah, we need a lot more data points than one tiny study. Almost all data to date shows vaccinated people do not spread the virus as effectively as unvaccinated people, and that vaccinated people are far more likely to have asymptomatic (not pre-symptomatic) infections, and most data points to those types of infections having a very low rate of transmission. One chunk of leaked data does not negate all previous research.

[standardUser]

Here is a link to the actual study. I would take a look at the limitations discussed in the Discussion section.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

[12elephant]

> those who cannot be vaccinated

You mean the same people this mandate will prevent from participating in society?

[trident5000]

Put unvaccinated people who catch covid last in line at hospitals. Problem solved.

[cwkoss]

It's an infectious disease. This isn't an issue of "you can risk your own life and health" - unvaccinated people are risking the lives of many others in their communities.

You can't kill your neighbor's grandmother by bungee jumping.

[rcpt]

It's odd. When people don't heed fire evacuations to try and save their homes they put first responders at risk and are lionized by the press.

https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2009/08/14/bonny-dooners-b...

[anigbrowl]

Can I drive a race car down your street?

[trident5000]

I dont get your analogy. You can get the vaccine to protect yourself.

[anigbrowl]

Oh, I think you do. I'm not expressing any worry about my own protection, I'm asking if I can drive a race car down your street.

[trident5000]

No I really think I dont because it doesnt make any sense.