[spothedog1]

Limited supply of housing is an artificial local government constraint using tools like zoning and permitting to stop the construction of new housing keep prices high for incumbent owners. I agree it’s a huge problem but I would rather fight the constraint on supply than limit demand (partially immigrants) when they contribute so much else. We shouldn’t restrict economic growth and deny millions of people the chance at a better life to appease NIMBYs.

USA is amazing at assimilating immigrants. Mostly the places the furthest away from any immigrants that don’t actually interact with them have a problem. The melting pot isn’t a myth it’s real.

[throw37388]

Please. We have 40% unemployment in Greece among young people. Housing is bloody expensive to build. It is not some goverment conspiracy!

Did you actually try to immigrate into US? It is one of the worst countries at accepting immigration. Any normal country gives citizenship after 5 years of residency. In US it is like 30 years.

And from far away it looks like your melting pot is broken. Too many groups fighting each other.

[bialpio]

"30 years" is factually incorrect. The requirement is to be a permanent resident for 5 years (I can find links if needed). Source: I'm currently awaiting my naturalization appointment, if all goes well the total time from setting my foot in the US to becoming a citizen will be few months short of 9 years (~2.5 years on work visa & 5 years on green card + ~1.5 years wait for naturalization appointment).

[bialpio]

With that said, it may be tricky to become a resident [1] in the first place. There are per-country-of-birth quotas, currently the wait times for people born in China / India can be significant (if taking the work visa route), up to 11 years. The longest wait that I see is for family-based immigration from Mexico - 24 years' wait for "married sons/daughters of US citizens". [2]

[1] resident to me means lawful permanent resident

[2] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...

[legolas2412]

That may be true for you or the Greek person here. Not for indians, Chinese, and Mexican.

[bialpio]

Only one category ("married children of US citizens"), only for Mexicans, comes close enough to ~30 years total time (~24 years waiting to become LPR, +5 years being an LPR in USA) to consider the "30 years" as valid IMO. The fact still remains that the requirement for citizenship is to be a LPR for 5 years (this is the upper bound, there are cases where less is possible), it is the LPR part that may take time, as I've already mentioned in a reply to my comment. For China and India the total times are closer to 15-20 years. All of this is for family-based immigration, which I'd expect to be generally less interesting as it requires people to already have a fairly close family member who is a US citizen.

[spothedog1]

Not familiar with housing in Greece. I should have clarified I’m talking about the US where housing is quite cheap to build but regulations make it illegal to build most types of housing.

I was born in the US but a lot of my family are immigrants and I know how tough the system is, I’m arguing to make it much easier.

I’m sure on the outside it does look broken and there are lots of issues to fix, but take a walk around pretty much any American urban metro area and it’s working amazingly well.

I can understand the situation in Greece is much different, especially when compare the amount of refugees compared to the population of Greece. But I think a lot of the issues boil down to Greece having a quite shit economy at the moment causing more issues. If jobs were abundant in Greece then I think immigration wouldn’t be as contentious. Although that’s just me taking from no experience. I’m interested in hearing your view.

[throw37388]

I would love to see how American cities deal with large scale immigration. SF got maybe 10k people on its streets and there is already talk about martial law and forcefully mopping people into rehabs. What would SF do with 1 million people on its streets? Athens and other cities managed...

Greece does not have a shit economy, we do relatively well. There are simply not enough jobs.

US is the same. Show me an entry level job, that pays enough to buy a house and raise a family...

[spothedog1]

Do you mean like NYC? Literally the city built on large scale immigration? Also the state of California. Houston, Texas is the most diverse city in the country and you can buy a house for less than the national average. There are hundreds of millions of people in the US who own homes and raise families on entry level jobs, the just don't live in high cost of living areas. That's not to say their lives are all perfect and rosy but its possible. I'm not denying housing affordability is a problem, it absolutely is but narrowing your view of America to SF when it is the most extreme example is a little disingenuous. My hometown has tons of people where 2 parents work slightly above minimum wage jobs and own homes and raise families. It's 2 hours from 2 major cities. You can absolutely have a good life without making a ton of money. Now healthcare... that's a separate issue.

I'm not sure where you're getting your news on America but martial law isn't being declared anywhere. Most of the country is relatively peaceful and people are happy - https://news.gallup.com/poll/351932/americans-life-ratings-r...

If there are simply not enough jobs in Greece, that means the economic situation isn't great. A highly functioning economy should be produces lots of jobs as businesses grow and expand. I'm not arguing Greece should take more immigrants though, you sound like you don't want them and neither does your country. I would be happy for America to accept all of them, refugee or PhD Scientist, but unfortunately the political situation at the moment doesn't allow for that.

[throw37388]

》but take a walk around pretty much any American urban metro area and it’s working amazingly well.

I choosed SF bcos you wrote this. NY etc have similar problem. Modern US cities are not capable to accept and absorb large scale immigration of people who are not already integrated into society. People who do not speak local language and have very different culture.

Martial law was suggested as a way to force homeless into shelters and rehabs. SF gets around 700 people per year, and it already abandoned basic humanitarian principles. Look at recent Louis Rossmann video, this mishandling is systemic problem in US: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8WGjCeFyr1g&pp=sAQA

》USA is amazing at assimilating immigrants

I disagree with that. I will leave it here.

[relativ575]

Why didn't you try to look at some numbers? If anything, immigration to the US has accelerated in the last 50 years. 4.7 percent of the population were immigrants in 1970. The number increased to 13.7 percent in 2019.

"Since 1970, the share and number of immigrants have increased rapidly, mainly because of large-scale immigration from Latin America and Asia. The vast diversification of immigration flows was ushered in by important shifts in U.S. immigration law (including the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 which abolished national-origin admission quotas; the creation of a formal refugee resettlement program with the Refugee Act of 1980; and the Cold War-era grant of preferential treatment to Cuban immigrants); the United States’ growing economic and military presence in Asia and Latin America; economic ties, social linkages, and deep migration history between the United States and its southern neighbors; and major economic transformations and political instability in countries around the world." - [0]

People from Asia and Latin America, those who contribute the majority of the boom in migration since 1970s, are those by default don't speak English natively and have distinct culture. 22 percent American spoke a language other than English at home.

> Modern US cities are not capable to accept and absorb large scale immigration of people who are not already integrated into society. People who do not speak local language and have very different culture.

Incorrect. As of 2018, 20% of NYC residents are naturalized citizens (born abroad), 10.9% are legal and 6.3% are undocumented immigrants. [1]

[0] - https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested...

[1] - https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/moia_an...

[spothedog1]

You can disagree but it's true, the melting pot isn't a myth. I'm a brown skinned child of immigrants and my entire friend group is white and black people who have been here for generations along with other children of immigrants. Even my anti-immigrant Trump supporting next door neighbors are like a second family to me. Again for the vast majority of the country people get along amazingly well regardless of background, you just hear about the bad parts on the news. You can keep thinking people don't integrate into society but after 1 generation of being in the US anyone from anywhere can safely call themselves American. I can't say the same for Greece but culturally in the US wave after wave of immigrants become fully integrated American quite fast.