[nsonha]

> vanilla js?

you either:

1. write spagetti

2. make your own abstractions, utilities, structures etc

No comment on 1.

On 2. I know you think your code is so elegant and blows people' mind away or whatever, but trust me, give it to someone else to have a read. They'd probably disagree with you more than they would ever disagree with a framework.

At least the frameworks have tests and documents for their functions

[rank0]

The only UIs I create are pretty simple. For simple interfaces I would much rather deal with spaghetti and homegrown solutions rather than massive overhead and complicated abstractions.

A lot of people just blindly build everything they write with their framework of choice. I argue that react is overkill for 9/10 web apps.

[nsonha]

Where do they teach this "people do things because they're dumb, I'm special I see the truth" thing? Let me sign up.

[rank0]

Honestly if you just pay attention to the constantly shifting fads and “best practices” you’d have noticed by now.

Example: object oriented programming was THE WAY the write code a few years ago. Now functional programming is all the rage even though it has existed for decades. In fact, idiomatic react code just recently made the same switch.

I think it’s important to think critically and frankly having a discussion about the efficacy of contemporary design choices is the starting point.

[nsonha]

I agree with that, but what you advocade isn't efficacy, "just write good vanilla js" is as useful of a statement as "just write clean code".

In practice I've never seen anyone capable of writing clean vanilla js except for myself.

Of course that's just me jerking off to my own standard. "Vanilla" is an useless approach when it comes to finding a common ground to work in a professional context. It's in-efficacy in that sense.