[suifbwish]

Precisely. If atheists are correct and there is not a god, you gain/lose nothing. However if the other side is correct and God does exist, the risk of existential woe is unfathomable. (None of this describes a personal perspective, merely things I’ve read)

[IntrepidWorm]

The refutation that occurs to me (and has been raised before) is thus: if your belief in a god is wholly predicated on self preservation (avoiding eternal damnation/suffering/etc), and not motivated by the moral tenets of the religion, does that not defeat the purpose of being a believer? More to the point, if a god is all-powerful and all-knowing (or at the very least has some supernatural insight into human drives and motivations), there is little chance of deceiving the deity into accepting you as a true believer.

I would say a better reading of pascal's wager is to live your life morally and compassionately (relative to social norms), and accept that any god that may exist will judge you based on the character of your actions and decisions, and not on adherance to strict dogma.

[vintermann]

That is exactly the "straw" interpretation I tried to argue against. It's not about God, at least not on this point.

It's about existential nihilism being pointless on its own terms. If you ask the question, "why does this matter" (and "this" can be absolutely anything) you've already assumed some things matter more than others. We absolutely won't get anywhere talking about God if we don't talk about this first.

[mbfg]

atheists don't say there is no god. At least the general definition of atheism. Only that there is no reason to believe that there is one.

[krapp]

>Only that there is no reason to believe that there is one.

That would be agnosticism. Atheists claim there is definitely no god.

[mbfg]

sorry, you are incorrect.

Gnosticism/Agnosticism are, for all practical purposes, useless terms.

Gnosticism is what you know.

Theism is what you believe.

The two words are splitting hairs, the difference is just the level of certainty. You don't wait for absolute knowledge to act. You act on your beliefs.

A-gnosticism is a lack of total knowledge

A-theism is a lack in a belief in a god.

The definition of atheism is a lack in a belief in a god, not a claim that gods don't exist. There are some atheists who believe that no god's exist, but that is something extra beyond atheism.

[staticman2]

Atheist just don't believe there is a god. You can't rationally claim 100% certainty of anything.