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by stevenjohns 1775 days ago
No, sorry, you don’t get it to lump the Jewish people into this. It’s incredibly dishonest on your part to even go in that direction and you should feel embarrassment for trying to steer it towards that.
1 comments

Steer what to where? Are you saying Israel's history and present are not connected to Jewish history and the 20th century atrocities? That's an extremely bizarre position to hold.
What isn't connected to Jewish history? Let's see… Christianity's out, as is everything influenced by that. Same with Islam. Considering conquerers, trade, settlement – even just the impact of the United States – that leaves… not very much.

The atrocities of WWII are more recent than the start of Jewish history, but it's called “World War II” for a reason. Think of the impact of the Geneva Conventions, for just one example.

A lot of things are not connected to Jewish history, especially not recent Jewish history. We are not that important.
They would've happened very differently if Judaism wasn't a thing, so I'd say they were connected. Judaism is at about as important as the Roman empire, or the people who introduced horses to the Americas – though perhaps less important than the people who crossed the Beringa land bridge.
The Balfour Declaration was well before WWII. Israel was always a colonization project.
Anti-semitism, including of the extremely violent variety, did not start with WWII. The Balfour Declaration was a response to Jews wanting to get the hell out of a Europe that hated them and liked to go kill them every so often.
The Balfour Declaration was a request from a banker so powerful that he could order the British government to create a new colony. It has nothing to do with anti-semitism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

> It has nothing to do with anti-semitism.

Anti-semitism has nothing to do with the movement to create a homeland for the Jewish people (which then tried to garner the support of various governments, which is where the Balfour Declaration comes in)? It has everything to do with it.

Were there various colonialism-related issues involved too, of course. But pretending like that's the entire story is quite disingenuous.

> create a homeland for the Jewish people

This is clearly colonialism by definition. It’s the entire story because there is no justification for oppressing and colonizing others, even if the people doing it also face discrimination. It’s not an excuse and shouldn’t be part of the conversation.

Why is the Balfour Declaration a main point in your argument? It could have not happen and yet Jews would still have been desperate to find a state of their own. I am not sure how it relates to anything besides it being a piccant topic (a powerful banker!)
The Balfour Declaration is the foundation of Israel, of course it should be the main point of any discussion of the region.