[simondotau]

The reason why lithium batteries are portrayed as green is because they are a necessary enabling technology for most forms of non-fossil energy. Without them, a transition to renewably-sourced energy is impractical—arguably impossible.

The dirtiest part of lithium batteries is cobalt, which is being substantially reduced (or removed entirely) from lithium battery chemistries. Lithium itself is an abundant resource and is not especially dirty, at least when compared to many other raw materials. And there are prospects for future mines being much cleaner than in the past.

With sufficient investment, lithium batteries can be highly recyclable and it's feasible that within a couple of decades, nearly all the materials in new battery production could be recycled. And would be recycled because it would be cheaper (and thus more lucrative) than mining from earth.

[abalone]

What’s your source on recyclability optimism? Otherwise it sounds hand-wavy. Recyclability is very bad right now.

[simondotau]

Optimism comes from scientific first principles, economic fundamentals, and an awareness that THE #1 most fully recycled mass-produced product on the planet are vehicular lead acid batteries. Approximately 90% of batteries sold end up in the hands of recyclers, who are able to recycle 99% of their contents.

Once there's a strong pipeline of electric cars headed for wreckers, the scale is there for recycling to be significantly more profitable than mining raw materials. The scale isn't there right now because most battery packs pulled from vehicles (wrecks, end-of-life, etc) are still highly valuable intact.

Companies like Redwood Materials are scaling up in preparation for this future.

(Non-vehicle lithium batteries are likely too small, too fiddily, too difficult to build a supply chain for that recycling to be economical on their own. But once the pipeline is there, adding all the small batteries to it would be a no-brainer.)

[abalone]

Strong words, but you didn’t cite any sources. What are the “scientific first principles” that support your claim? Lead acid batteries are entirely different materials and chemistry, e.g. lead retains its quality through secondary smelting.[1]

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/092134...

[simondotau]

Why do I need cite sources? I'm not here to teach you basic chemistry. It is neither remarkable nor controversial that that nearly all of the materials within a lithium ion battery are very highly recyclable—infinitely recyclable with respect to metals such as nickel, cobalt, lithium, and copper. Redwood Materials are already recycling 20,000 tonnes per year, including production scrap from the Panasonic-Tesla factory in Nevada, with recovery rates currently between 95 and 98 percent.

The only missing piece to achieving scale is a pipeline of recyclable material; this will obviously exist once electric cars begin to age out in sufficient quantity.