[toofy]

There is almost nothing which would change the minds of the people who don’t already understand these as problems.

No one seeking change is targeting them as the audience. Though, in their own heads, they probably delude themselves into believing they are.

[kbenson]

That sounds like an easy way to discount any criticism of your own actions or views, which doesn't seem a particularly healthy way to go through life. You could almost mistake it for being the same thing you're saying causes others to be not worth engaging with...

[toofy]

Who is saying not to analyze the event? And who is saying never to engage with others? I’m certainly not saying either of those things.

Did you respond to the wrong comment?

[kbenson]

If you assume there is nothing you can do to change someone's mind, there is little to no reason to interact with them with regards to that thing. Without that interaction, you won't get their concerns and criticisms. Not interacting with people about something you and they disagree on is a good way to make sure there's nothing they can do to change your mind, and I wouldn't be surprised if they view you in a similar way to how you described them originally.

The only solution to that is to engage, and engage with the assumption that change is possible, for both of you. Otherwise you're just lecturing someone, and that's not engagement.

[toofy]

Again, Im just not following. This has little to do with the point my comment was making.

I said, anyone who would tune out The Guardian article as noise because they disagree with the topic is not the target audience of the walkout.

How much someone chooses to spend their personal energy or personal time “debating” contrarians just isn’t relevant to my comment…

You seem determined to change the subject away from who the walkout was for into this boring and repeatedly beat-to-death discussion, so, here’s where I stand: You can say they somehow have an obligation to spend their valuable time and valuable energies engaging with people who would tune it out as “just more SJW noise” or whatever, but I would personally argue, if they’re already tuning out an article because they disagree, rather than wasting time on them, there are thousands of ways to better use one’s time.

The second part of my argument would be, I understand that some of these people who would ignore it as noise have convinced themselves that everything has to do with them. But they should be asking themselves, “Why do I think this walkout was to convince me?” and “Why do I think they would spend their time and energy to do this walkout for me?” and “Why do I think my opinion is even relevant to this company where I don’t work and people I don’t even know?” and then, they if they’re honest with themselves, at least one of the conclusions they’ll come to is, “omg, im so vain that i believe these people i don’t know at a company i don’t work for should be seeking my approval…” which should lead themselves to ask the most important question of all…

But yeah, this topic of “you ought to spend your limited personal time and personal resources convincing contrarians” is boring af. we’ve read it in comment threads tens of thousands of times by now and with people who still can’t figure out how to break out of the elementary level loop they’ve gotten themselves stuck in.

So to sum it up, people who have tuned out the article as noise because they disagree are absolutely not the target audience. And if they find this basic fact troubling, they should reorient themselves to figure out why they would even imagine they are.

[kbenson]

> I said, anyone who would tune out The Guardian article as noise because they disagree with the topic is not the target audience of the walkout.

No, you said "There is almost nothing which would change the minds of the people who don’t already understand these as problems." That's far more expansive than a statement about the people that read the Guardian that don't agree ignoring it. It's one thing to say people may not trust one source or how it's presented, it's an entirely different thing to say they are unwilling to consider any source or argument. One is stating the people have a bias around a source and/or topic, the other is painting a large group of people themselves as entirely unreasonable, and to me it seemed your statement was conveying the latter.

If that's not your intent, then we can just chalk this up to some combination of poor expression and poor interpretation and call it a day.

[toofy]

we can be as pedantic as we like, but either way, people like that were not the target audience. <—- that’s the important piece of what i was saying.