[admax88q]

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying, but I think we're coming at it from different perspectives. I am looking at it from the perspective of software which does not yet exist but will be built in the future. In that case, missing Safari features _are_ a detriment to users, because it prevents developers from building this new software.

From the perspective of users of existing software that seems to break with no reason I agree. It's stupid how heavyweight imgur has become when it used to just be a fast simple website that worked everywhere.

Maybe you're content with the functionality your system has now and need no more, but I am still on the quest for new things I can do digitally, and easier way to do things I already can.

Take Figma for example, I'm not even a designer but even I enjoy having access to a collaborative drawing app that is trivial to share with other collaborators. If browsers had not agreed to implement Canvas and all rolled it out, Figma would likely not exist. Perhaps they could have created a packaged native application for all major operating systems, but in reality that's a ton more work, and a huge impediment for users to convince collaborators to buy/install some native app so they can work on a drawing together.

What other software are we missing out on because the barrier for interacting with USB/NFC/Bluetooth/Notifications/Background-Sync is too high.

In a world with native apps only, only the big players can afford to target all platforms, and only the big enough use cases can justify the expense.

[tekknik]

> In that case, missing Safari features _are_ a detriment to users, because it prevents developers from building this new software.

> Perhaps they could have created a packaged native application for all major operating systems, but in reality that's a ton more work, and a huge impediment for users to convince collaborators to buy/install some native app so they can work on a drawing together.

> What other software are we missing out on because the barrier for interacting with USB/NFC/Bluetooth/Notifications/Background-Sync is too high.

These are quite a bit overstating the problem. The barrier to entry to develop a native app using safari is quite simple, and you can extend safari to do many things, including being spawned by golang and adding other FFI's for javascript functions. The barrier to entry is your willingness to learn and you only see these complaints coming from new developers. Taking a canvas API and implementing yet another collab drawing app is not innovating, it's using an API.

On the flip side, each new API brings more and more surface area for attacks. And if we keep stacking new APIs we don't have enough time to mature and secure up the existing ones. Notice the only example apps given are attempts to replace native apps with web apps.

[admax88q]

This is not about my willingness to learn, it's about my willingness to invest.

Sure I can make a native app that extends Safari with the APIs I need, and I can also do that again for Android, and again for Windows and again for macOS. Or the browsers could implement features developers like me want and I only have to invest once.

Replacing native apps with web apps IS innovative.

Sure the app's functionality is the same as those before it, but the delivery and interaction paradigm is so much improved for users. Being able to invite a friend to participate on what I'm doing without them having to install a native app IS a step forward in user experience.

[tekknik]

> I can also do that again for Android, and again for Windows and again for macOS.

This is one file at best per platform, even less now given the frameworks available. And what you learn in the process goes on to benefit your career forever.

> Being able to invite a friend to participate on what I'm doing without them having to install a native app IS a step forward in user experience.

This is entirely subjective. And webapps have their own version of this by forcing usage of chrome, forcing account creation, forcing facebook usage, etc. Web experiences for anything complex doesn’t exactly instill confidence given the shaky experience and devs inability to create seem less offline experiences even with all the required transports available.

Then there’s performance aspects of things. Things like Unreal Engine Editor running in the web, or blender, just seems ridiculous. Sometimes you need native performance.

There’s also security issues with each additional API and web has a bad history with security.

People are making and remaking collaboration apps every day. They’re a dime a dozen now. Apps that truly are innovative that people use to create more things are still native apps for good reason. Otherwise the current set of features supported by safari is enough for me to do my daily work and I feel like Im missing nothing by not using chrome.