[mullingitover]

The problem with fuel cell vehicles is they still need batteries. Not as big of a battery, but they still a battery of some kind because the fuel cell can't deliver burstable power the way a battery can. So the FCV is really the worst of all possible worlds - all the complexity of a fuel cell, plus all the rare earth needs of a BEV.

I also can't believe that the production and distribution network for hydrogen could be anywhere near as efficient as direct distribution of electrons. This whole idea seems like a nation-scale Rube Goldberg machine.

[Hypx_]

There's a world of difference between a 1.5 kWh battery and an 80 kWh battery.

[mullingitover]

Yes, I imagine the 1.5kWh will deliver pretty sluggish performance, but it'll be in a car that costs more than a BEV, with less reliability and with even worse range anxiety.

[Hypx_]

Nothing you said is true.

[mullingitover]

Here's where things stand right now:

2021 Toyota Mirai:

0-60 in 9.2 seconds

$49,500

43 publicly available hydrogen stations in the US

2020 Bolt EV:

0-60 in 6.3 seconds

$33,000

41,400 EV charging stations in the US (and charging at home is easy)

If you're going to claim that an FCEV is more reliable in spite of the extreme differences in mechanical complexity, I'm all ears and would love to see some cites for that.

BEVs are getting cheaper faster than FCVs, FCVs don't have a prayer of ever competing with BEVs on performance, and there are ~1000x public EV charging stations compared to hydrogen stations.

[Hypx_]

Hydrogen supercars and race cars exist. It's matter of having a high enough discharge rate battery or a supercapacitor. It's a completely pointless argument to bring up.

Hydrogen buses are already cheaper to operate than battery buses and are more reliable: https://cafcp.org/sites/default/files/07-24-2020-Foothill-ZE...

Real world testing has already proven you wrong.

[mullingitover]

> Hydrogen supercars and race cars exist

Yes, there are some prototypes that get close to the performance of a decently-spec'd Tesla Model 3.

> Hydrogen buses are already cheaper to operate than battery buses

There are some serious gymnastics going on with the math in that paper. The paper shows FCEV buses cost 3x the maintenance per mile and cost ~30% more per mile for the fuel. A lot of that price difference rides on the assumption that batteries will never go down in price, which is pretty debatable.