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by Sebb767 1795 days ago
> I'm betting Windows is the leader in "my-pc-is-not-my-pc-anymore" :/

There are PCs out there running ChromeOS and Android. Not to mention smartphones and game consoles.

Windows is not good in this regard, but it's by far not the worst (though the UX for administrative actions is really not great, IMO).
1 comments
techrat 1795 days ago
(Nearly?) All ChromeOS devices use CoreBoot. You really can't get much more open than that.

Android is open source and if you don't buy a locked down device from a carrier, the bootloader is unlockable and the system easily rootable.

Your two examples of something more 'not my pc anymore' than Windows aren't exactly good ones.

Now, if you were to mention MacOS and iOS... then you definitely would have had a point.

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Sebb767 1795 days ago
> (Nearly?) All ChromeOS devices use CoreBoot. You really can't get much more open than that.

Last time I looked, it was really hard to install anything other than ChromeOS on Chromebook hardware. You can install a chrooted Linux on them, yes, but on the device itself you can't even execute unsigned binaries.

Impossible? No. Harder than executing an installer with elevated rights? Yes. Plus, they also come with pre-installed software like Google Docs.

> Android is open source and if you don't buy a locked down device from a carrier,

That's quite a big if. Android itself is open source, yes, but >90% of the ecosystem rely on Google Play services, which are anything but. And, when talking about pre-installed apps that the user can't remove without a lot of effort, Android basically invented that.

> the bootloader is unlockable and the system easily rootable.

If you wipe your device and void your warranty. And then install a third-party binary to actually use those rights, while similarly loosing the ability to use quite a few apps (like banking). That is, if the manufacturer makes it that easy (Xiaomi, for example, needs you to sign up and wait for that - it's possible, but anything but frictionless).

> Now, if you were to mention MacOS and iOS... then you definitely would have had a point

I can't talk about MacOS, to be honest. Though, as far as I know, getting a root shell is not hard and running own software is not a problem.

We agree on iOS, but the grandparent talked about PCs - iOS really does not fall into that category (that's why I explicitly mentioned smartphones).

> Your two examples of something more 'not my pc anymore' than Windows aren't exactly good ones.

Windows is not a good example of that. Don't get me wrong, I don't like windows. But it's by far not the worst example of a locked-down, vendor-owned system and it would be even less bad if the administration UX would be simpler.

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techrat 1795 days ago
> Last time I looked, it was really hard to install anything other than ChromeOS on Chromebook hardware.

Look again.

Switching to Developer Mode and hitting Ctrl-L at the boot up screen allows you to boot from USB or SD Card.

>And, when talking about pre-installed apps that the user can't remove without a lot of effort, Android basically invented that.

This statement is so disingenuous that I'm just going to stop quoting here.

Hello? iOS? Couldn't even remove icons/apps like Newsstand off your homescreen for 7 OS versions.

You need to familiarize yourself a bit more with what you're criticizing lest you sound like a head-in-the-sand zealot.

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Sebb767 1795 days ago
Maybe you should have read my comment (or the previous one):

> We agree on iOS, but the grandparent talked about PCs - iOS really does not fall into that category (that's why I explicitly mentioned smartphones).

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techrat 1795 days ago
> > > Android basically invented that.

> > Prior art.

> Watch me dance.

Okay.

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Sebb767 1795 days ago
I mentioned that exclusion in the first comment. I re-emphasized it in the second comment. If we don't limit ourselves to PCs, I raise you my PS1 - could not even play a burned CD without hardware modifications, let alone customize anything. Predates iOS by 13 years.
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jmnicolas 1795 days ago
> Android is open source and if you don't buy a locked down device from a carrier, the bootloader is unlockable and the system easily rootable.

Yes but it's a subpar experience compared to the closed Android.

I use GrapheneOS since about a year, and I can't do much with my phone anymore. I stay on it for the same reason I have Kubuntu on my PC: it's a relief to know it's not Microsoft's / Google's all seeing eye.

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