[jhgb]

> First of all, Greece was not the start of the western civilization.

Possibly, but if the question is "where in the western world did history start", Greece seems like a fine answer, since 1) it's unquestionably a part of the western world, and 2) history starts with writing, and Mycenaean Greeks are (at least off the top of my head) the oldest culture in the western world the writings of which we can read. So that's the beginning of western history, even if not the root of its civilization.

[chrisseaton]

> it's unquestionably a part of the western world

'Western' means west of... Greece. So Rome, which is west of Greece, was when civilisation moved west and when western civilisation began.

[jhgb]

Sure, within Europe, and especially from the perspective of the Great Schism, Greece is eastern. From the global perspective, not so much. I have yet to meet a person who'd argue that the region with Greco-Roman cultural heritage somehow excludes Greece, of all places.