[cracker_jacks]

These were only safe after one of those billionaires actually proved it. Before SpaceX and Tesla, both these things were considered untenable.

[tonyedgecombe]

I suspect the Nissan Leaf would have happened with or without Tesla.

[cma]

Blue Origin predates SpaceX.

[awestroke]

And still has not reached orbit

[cma]

> were considered untenable.

The billionaire space race starts before SpaceX, largely from/around the Ansari X Prize (Bezos, Paul Allen).