[jjm]

I believe there is hate because a lot of 'over engineering' was done in most projects. This then necessitated the need for more complicated (and `sometimes` useless) new Java techniques.

This most likely comes from seeing Java (or x,y,z) as thee only tool one would possibly need. Unfortunately, Java much like every other lang should be seen as a tool with pros and cons, in a chest of other tools.

Also, it's bad measure to only consider deployment size regarding any platform effectiveness.

" Let's learn more from Java". I'd rather learn more from "Computer Science" and apply those techniques to Java. Not the other way around.

[calpaterson]

> I believe there is hate because a lot of 'over engineering' was done in most projects.

Just reading this and thinking: "oh man, if ONLY that was my problem".

[diolpah]

Over the course of the past few years, a lot of the overengineering mindset has been leaving the Java community. Bruce Tate and others have had a significant impact on this shift. More dynamic languages becoming available for the jvm has also helped, as well as lightweight frameworks like guice and picocontainer that permit some degree of complex configuration injection without the overhead of past solutions.

Java's ecosystem is changing, albeit slowly.